Josaudio TDA1541 DAC

Intro

Now I have two TDA1541 CD players, one Maganvox and one Adcom. Both have kind of the same flavor of being warm and “analog” like. They have amazing soundstage, just maybe not the best in details. They still have a pleasant sound that many get hooked on, which I don’t blame them for. I have always longed for a TDA1541 DAC for this reason, but sadly the TDA1541 kind of fell out of production about the time that outboard DAC’s were becoming all the rage and to find a TDA1541 DAC is pretty rare, and expect to pay, but some do exist. Some have gone to modify their vintage CD player for the onboard DAC. However, this requires a bit of hacking around and cutting traces and such. So, I was intrigued to hear about this new production Josaudio TDA1541 DAC.



Quite a big and heavy box. Typical Chinese aluminum black anodized case. Inside is shielded toroidal with two rectifiers and 4 regulators. The box and board is very spacious. The board also has very thick traces. I usually don’t see this kind of thick traces on boards except on high dollar guitar tube amps running hundreds of volts.

Only one coax S/PDIF on the back and two analog RCA outputs with and IEC inlet for power. Once cheap blue antividal power switch on front.



Sound

Amps: Black Widow, Vali 2+, Gilmore Lite clone
Headphones: HD650/HD600

Out of the box, it was not the typical bloomy low end silky highs from a TDA1541. It was glary and grainy in the mids and on top end with top end kind of congestion with dynamics. Low end was kind of soft. Sub-bass was there, just lacking in definition and sounded like a soft pillow. Warm up hardly affected this box. Maybe an hour warm-up, but even then, there was not much change.

Soundstage and depth was flatter than both modded Modi MB and Theta. Output is a few db higher than both Modi MB and Theta unbalanced out. This hotter output made comparisons more difficult.

I really feel the biggest drawback is the three per channel 5534 op amps. So it goes I/V, filter, then final output buffer. So that is 6 single channel op amps in total. I did not see any leads to the offset pins, so no running in class A tricks or anything. Interestingly enough that stock is a genuine TI NE5534, but in the filter and in the buffer is the JRC version of the NE5534. The 5534 saw a lot of use in the 80’s in pro-audio equipment in everything from mic-preamps to compressors to guitar pedals. It has a bunch of gain, high slew, and unity gain stable, but it is an older design at this point and there are some better choices out there.

Luckily, this is already installed with the op amp holders to make it easy to swap out. No de-soldering or soldering required. Just make sure you power down the unit and are careful in removal and install. It is super easy to bend and break some op-amp pins in swapping around and not being careful. Once you lose a leg, most times the op-amp is toast.



I had a couple of single op amps lying around that I was planning on swapping out on one of my other vintage DAC’s (Parasound DAC-800) that I just had not got around too yet. I thought I would toss them in and see if we could make some improvements.

AD797 in I/V:
Depth improved and overall cohesiveness. Not all the way there. Still glary and top end still rough and glary. Mid range much smoother, low end has better dynamics. High end still not quite tame and still glary.

AD811 in I/V:
Got really hot and unstable. DO NOT TRY. I almost burned my finger checking to see if it was hot after only plugging in for 20 seconds. It did not surprise me. This op amp is mostly used for HDTV signals. Fast and wide bandwidth is a dangerous combination for audio op amps.

AD797 in I/V and OPA604 in buffer:
Things getting much closer to the Modi MB here. Things still too forward with the mids. Highs are not quite as rough. Vocals a bit too forward, things seem a bit too disjointed. Not a bad sound, just kind of mid-centric.

OPA604 in I/V and AD797 in buffer:
This is actually THE closest to the modded Modi MB. Depth, speed, details. Going back to the Modi MB is actually kind of softer, deeper, but not as detailed. The Josaudio now sounds more alive. Still a bit of unnaturalness to it and things still more up front, but this is the best combo yet. I still would like a bit more soundstage, but this makes me feel much more connected to the music and the low end has decent impact with good details and nothing stands out too much except for just a touch of glary highs.

Filters make the least amount of difference in past experiences, but I would still pull that other 5534 for something better. I even put the TI NE5534 in there to see if I could improve things.

I would actually probably put an OPA604 in the filter position and call it done. Or even 604’s in all three positions. You could consider OPA627’s, but those come at a premium and likely not worth it in this inexpensive device. You could also go for some exotic options from Sparkos, Burson, or Muses, but YMMV. The power supply is very robust and the box is quite large to accommodate, so go for it. You will only be limited by single channel options most. There are still many choices and combos.

It still may also be held back by the SAA7220 input chip to feed the TDA1541. I believe it is set to 4x oversampling and this DAC is not a NOS DAC. It is multibit, but I am not sure of another good upgrade to the SAA7220.



In Conclusion

I have to remember that this is a) a vintage chip DAC limited to 24/48, b) a <$400 DAC. As such, in the stock form, there are others that will kill it. Modi 3+ for example, or even Modi MB (and modded Modi MB, fagettaboutit). Basically, to me, it will take a bit of tweaking of the op amps to get a good recipe to dial in to get the best out of the TDA1541. It is a fair and decent place to start if you really want to check out what the magic of the Phillips TDA1541 is all about and a bit of DIY tweak without really getting your hands dirty.

Also to mention that you can get partially boards without the TDA1541 chip to build your own. However, there are a lot of TDA1541 fakes out there, but there might be some TDA1541 CD players where the laser is dead or not working. There is also I2S input pins directly on the board. This is only if you are NOT using the S/PDIF input or for DIY build.

Buy finished model on eBay here

Buy partly populated boards to build yourself here

Measurements on Audiovoodoo

 

Thanks, how to tell which one is fake? I have no name DAC at home that has TDA1541 on the board when I open it. It has very nice tonal balance but I did not listen to it enough. Got it in trade for some $150 basic tube amp.

 

I'm not a TDA1541 expert, but from what I've gathered, it's pretty easy to tell from the printing on the chip; the quality of the print on the chip should tell you quite a bit (i.e., Philips didn't print crooked, or with uneven ink, or with "cheaper" thinner pure white ink, etc.). But either vintage pulls or premium prices are ultimately going to be the best "tell". price is literally information pertaining to market differentiation. The non-Crown real Philips chips aren't that rare.

 

So it looks like you can remove the SAA7220 and go straight NOS with some jumper leads.

I found this picture of this same chassis and board, but with the NOS jumpers directly feeding the TDA1541 -



I am not sure of the wires or pins, but it looks like at least three cables. I also think you have to do something else as the TDA1541 will now act as the "Master" and not the "Slave" (these are digital audio design terms - not derogatory).

 

Thanks, @yotacowboy and @rhythmdevils, for the chance to try out the Josaudio TDA1541 DAC.

I really liked this DAC. Whether others would depends on context and expectations.

I'm definitely a satisficer for the most part with audio equipment. I do have some specific goals for my systems, but those goals are pretty easy to meet and once met, I don't find myself tortured by the pursuit of more perfection.

I listened to the Josaudio TDA1541 on my big speaker system, which normally is fed by a Modi Multibit with the v2 firmware but stock opamps. I set Moode to re or up-sample everything to 48k/24.



The Josaudio is kind of like Philip Seymour Hoffman's character in "Along Came Polly". Compared to the Modi Multibit, it's less refined but easy to love if its lack of refinement isn't un-synergistic with your system.

I'd concur with @Azimuth about the glarey-ness in the midrange. That can be synergistic, though. On my horn system (2-way 18" open baffle + compression driver horns) at low volume, this glarey-ness just makes the music sound a bit more cutting and dynamic and interesting to listen to. At high volumes, though, you notice it.

At high volumes, I didn't detect much difference in the bass between the Modi Multibit and the Josaudio DACs. Satisfying bass impact and tone from both DACs. I didn't detect significant differences in staging or layering with these two DACs, but that's never been a strength of my speaker system.

I imagine that the differences between the Modi Multibit and the Josaudio DACs might be more apparent through headphones, but I didn't try them out that way.

For non-musical reasons, there are several reasons to like the Josaudio DAC. The case is quite decent, and the pics @Azimuth posted show that it has room inside for mods -- different caps or easy op-amp rolling. The DAC kind of invites you to do that stuff. The small form factor of the Modi is nice in some cases, but stiff SPDIF or RCA cables can yank it around, and in that sense the Josaudio DAC was nicer to work with.

Certainly if you want the best sound for the money, the Modi Multibit is the obvious better choice. But for me, there's something beguiling about the Josaudio TDA1541 that's got me thinking about what a TDA1541 with a better output stage would sound like.

Thanks again, @yotacowboy and @rhythmdevils, for the chance to listen to this DAC.

 

Hey, I just wanted to drop in on this thread to post why i decided to put this out on loaner. I'm not trying to influence/bias any input or impressions, but like @philipmorgan stated, there's "something in the way she moves" with this dac that i think might warrant some dicking around with all the components like caps and opamps that might maybe perhaps get this thing right with god. there's some roughness out of the box, but screwing around with parts all across the board (and knowing which parts to choose) is something that's beyond my pay grade.

edit: also, I don't think it's as bad as sharting itself out of the box for an art opening, but it is kinda bricking shots.

 

VRDS25/Arcam D270 > Diy Sangaku (myspec) > HD580


Plugged into the Wall and into my VRDS-25 CDT to start; i put 1 CD album (Tracy Chapman) through it. I'll try it with my modded Arcam tomorrow. Expected that SPDIF source quality really matters a LOT with these. If not willing to use a good vintage spdif source, probably should avoid this kinda stuff and just get something modern.

Vintage TDA1541 is no stranger to me, although i personally like the NOS implementations of this chip. My favorite thing about this chip is its Tone and Timbre, which i can still hear even in OS mode (SAA7220) of this particular dac. It's Warm and Organic, 98degrees warmth...Alive Living. If you don't know what Tone and Timbre means, you might after this loaner. It is chips like these among others ie PCM63, 58..56 (theta vs Yggdrasil) etc that made me realize the direction of new DACs have been going the Wrong way as with many things in this hobby. Tubes to Silicon, HD580 to Drop 58x, Low serial HD800 to 8XX

I feel like a like of modern dacs have a cold, artificial hifi timbre, FR peaks or distortions, and sometimes tone is too bright. Sadly many implementations of TDA1541 are just plain bad. The conclusion i already know is that this $400 DAC is a great way to test the waters if you like the Sound/Tone of vintage R2R. I don't think this implementation has too many sins of commission typical of R2R like i dont notice any major treble peaks or bass distortion or digitus. You don't buy something like this to compete in a resolution war, this one is not very competitive.

*Subjective impressions of Jos DAC (as-is condition) and as compared to my 2.3 DAC or in general

• Tone and Timbre Strong, vocals and stuff with real instruments sounds musical, lively, colorful, pleasant whatever you want to call it on both dacs. This is the primary reason you want this chip. You get more of this with nicer implementations. This is the only resemblance to my 2.3 dac. Implementations of TDA1541 can range that wide.
• Airy big sound, ambience, textured. You get more of this with nicer implementations. I like the way this example stages and presents a big even space around you. In nos mode you have to be very careful with Dac implementation, chain synergies to prevent it from collapsing inside your head.
• The resolution on Jos dac is quite low, the pace of the DAC feels like it's just skipping over notes (low depth); probably gets beaten by good modern midfi. I think my 2.3 dac (which is a midgrade product) resolution is somewhere between a WL and WD. the chip is capable.
• Low bass notes are smoothed/rounded, not really well defined (the weakspot of this chip and not super strong even if exotic implementations). I am under impression that this is greatly affected by SPDIF source as well. Do not interpret this as sounding like distortion, it's just kind of a loss of detail in this area compared to high end modern stuff.
• Mids sucked out (this might be the SAA7220 or opamps) on Jos DAC. Because of this v shape, the deep bass notes feel like they are intruding into the mids (ala bloom). good NOS implementations of TDA1541 have Beautiful Forward Pure Mids like the kind you hear in uber nice DHT SET amps except in a DAC. Jos amp sounds dirty. Bummer.
• Macro performance is weak and rounded, not much slap transient. You kinda hear the slam potential and the mighty weight behind it, but it's just too blunted and weak. Bummer.
• I'll test imaging and separation tomorrow, but I don't find anything remarkable about it.

**i was thinking maybe Jos DAC needs to compete against bottom of the line TDA1543 (aka 0.1 DAC). Basically the loaner DAC with TDA1543 using a ECC88 or 6N6P analog stage that we had go around in the past. They are both entry level in the same price range. I believe they trade blows with each other.

• Tone and Timbre Extremely Strong on tubed TDA1543 implementation compared to Jos DAC. 0.1DAC is the most 'Musically pleasing' sounding dac ive heard to date by far and i've heard a lot. It is the ONLY reason u buy any implementation of this BOTL chip. Both DACs have that Philips sound though. Although i gave 0.1 loaner a s/ raving review, it was a very important milestone in my development.
• Mids still sucked out on Jos DAC relative. 0.1 DAC has forward and immediate mids that don't get covered up by bass. Due to this, TDA1543 DAC is actually very clear sounding and engaging while Jos sounds veiled, bloomy, and less engaging. When choosing output stage of Jos in DIY, you probably want to aim for this presentation.
• Jos DAC resolution shits on lowly TDA1543 when there's more than two things going on in the music. It's a fact TDA1543 gets congested very easily and is short on bits.
• Microdynamics is very weak on both Jos and TDA1543. Not much to say about here.
• Jos DAC staging is normal in oversampling. It's quite good size and even in proportion. 0.1 dac doesnt stage very well in NOS and gets dunked. In headphones who cares about headstage anyway. Engagement matters more.
• Macro performance of 0.1 dac is quite good. Has slam, weight behind it, and good slap - I think it's better than the supposed famous DC2. Jos dac is lacking.

***As for the NOS mod, you are just bypassing the SAA7220 (4x? OS chip) CLK, LDATA, RDATA straight from source to the DAC chip. It's that easy in these vintage chips because it's all separated.

Three different TDA1541 based units.


Implementations of DEM Caps (SMD, WIMA, RFS2/UES)
This chip uses external caps for reference voltages to convert bits in internal R2R ladder. SMD in the cdp don't sound good obviously

 

Thank you to @yotacowboy and @rhythmdevils for arranging this loaner tour, I found this to be a really interesting listen. I did not end up having a ton of time to spend with it, but I felt pretty sufficiently done with it after a few hours.

If I can just cut to the chase, I really was not a huge fan of this one, especially on the first impression. But, it was a good lesson that you can still learn a lot about your preferences by spending some time critically listening, even if ultimately it is not for you. Overall tonally there are no major issues with this DAC, so I see the modding potential that others have explored. I see how you could "fix" this DAC. Overall it seems like a really nice unit and is worth the time to those that are more curious/patient than I am.

This DAC has its own sort of musicality, it is just not one I jive with. It does not suffer from glare/digititus sort of issue that normally kills a DAC for me. It does have its own strange crunchy with a slight sheen thing going on, let's call it a Frosted Flake quality. Crunchy on the inside, slight sheen on the outside....turns to mush over time.

I tested this DAC out with the Akitika PR-102/GT-102 into LS3/5a, and SW51+ into HD 600. Fed Roon from Pi2AES to Yggdrasil LIM with AES and to TDA1541 with Coax.

On the technical ability side, there are two significant issues. The first is, this is not very resolving. Granted I primarily ended up comparing to the Yggdrasil LIM, which is not a fair comparison, but there was just so much detail and nuance missing. Things end up coming across kind of dull and muddled because it is just glossing over lots of details. Vocals lose any sort of breathy quality and just are very one-note. I was listening to the track "Hot Knife" by Fiona Apple, from the Yggdrasil LIM is was one of the best auditory treats I have heard in weeks, from the TDA1541 I didn't want to finish it because it was somehow both smooth but also too shouty in the vocals to make it through.

The second major technical issue I ran into was in regards to the staging. I found the TDA1541 to have surprisingly good separation and some width to the stage, but it was incredibly flat. To me literally, everything sits on the same pane of the stage which I found to be incredibly distracting. I listened to the Cat Power cover of "Fortunate Son" and the lack of depth was painfully obvious, then tried it from the Yggdrasil LIM and it was completely unfolded.

When it comes to positives, as I mentioned before this tone of the TDA1541 does seem good, it is just killed by things coming across kind of flat and one-note due to deficiencies on the technical ability side. Not fatiguing in the traditional sense, but just something about the presentation that grates on me a bit. I was listening to the track "Dime Store Cowgirl" by Kacey Musgraves and for a brief moment I was thinking, maybe I am being too harsh on this DAC. But by the end of the track I was already over it again. I also liked the PRaT of the TDA1541, it is slightly fast but not distractingly so, just enough to get you moving a bit in your seat and make you lean in a bit. I also found that the TDA1541 can be more forgiving of a poor recording, due to being less resolving. I was listening to Alicia Keys "So Simple" and from the Yggdrasil LIM I was barely able to stand it with how compressed it sounded. With the TDA1541 I actually found it to be kind of soulful and had me grooving, even if vocals were a bit crunchy/hollow.

In conclusion, I would say this DAC has a good personality but could use a makeover. Good, mostly natural tone, but lots of deficiencies to overcome for it to be a stellar performer. Excited to see what the talented folks in this community could do with it. I normally don't like to dwell on negative impressions, but @yotacowboy said to hold no punches, hope I didn't go too far here. I still really appreciate the opportunity to hear this one, and I would still encourage others, especially those that could tweak it, to give it a whirl. Was unlike any other budget DAC I have heard, so in that way, I really appreciated my time with it.

 

Thank you to @yotacowboy and @rhythmdevils for offering this one up for a listen. I was the last one on the tour and the DAC decided to end the show early after about 1-1.5 hours of play. But I got enough of a listen to hopefully share something worthwhile to someone. My chain was Qobuz->Pi2AES->Freya S (1x buffered)->Aegir-> PAP Trio 15 with Heil Tweeters.

The first hour of listening was with no warm up, the last 1/2 hour was after being on for about 24 hours. I started taking notes on the second day after thinking on Day 1, how the hell do I describe what I'm hearing? The presentation was similar to what I remembered coming from the old Adcom GCD-575 and Magnavox CDB-650 I used to listen to regularly when I was in retail during the late 80's. I swear I didn't know what DAC those players used until I looked it up. Bingo. 1541 or 1541A.

The first thing that came to mind during the short second listen was...Meaty. The Pixies had the punchy drums and clear bass line I expected. I feel like some midbass showed up that I didn't have before. Midbass is an area that can be distracting for me if theres some bloat. But I think my system is a little lean in that area and this DAC filled that in to where it sounded better. Voices had a nice naturalness to them. Now as I've mentioned before I have a dip in my hearing at 8k and then it rolls off pretty quick around 13-14k. So I'm probably oblivious to glare. There was a certain ease to the midrange I liked

I haven't heard decent British gear for a long time but people always go on about how much of it is known for Pace, Rhythm and Timing. I think this DAC had that although I've never heard a great reference of what that actually is. Maybe someone else that heard this DAC can comment as to if I'm full of crap or not. Or what else it is I may be hearing. There was a slight softer edge to things but didn't strike me as rolled off. It didn't have that hyper low level detail retrieval like a lot of modern DACs, but it was fun and made me want to listen to music.

There was some image depth. Not huge but enough to where it wasn't flat. I also noticed that the imaging wasn't a solid window between the speakers. It sort of hit certain zones, and one of them was immediately to the inside of the speakers which some DACs don't do very well. I found this entertaining instead of a handicap.

And maybe with such a short listen my opinions would have changed after another day or two. Who knows. But I enjoyed this enough to start thinking of maybe getting an old player that has this chip. It was fun.

 

Big thanks to @yotocowboy for offering this as a loaner.

I was intrigued by the DAC as it was mentioned, "This has been described as sounding similar to the Airist R-2R DAC but with better treble." I currently use an RDAC in my office headphone setup and I've been looking for something to replace it but also keep it on a budget so the Josaudio DAC looked really interesting. When I received it, my initial surprise was at the size of the unit. I was not expecting it to be over twice the size of the RDAC. That alone would make it harder to use on my desktop.



RPI/Digi One Hat > Josaudio DAC > SW51 > JAR650s & Grado Hemp

Sound, I liked it. On my system it did have an overall softness to the sound but it did a lot right and for the most part it was enjoyable. The tone really stood out and is what kept pushing me to listen more. The headstage was also excellent the imaging left to center to right flowed very well. With the RDAC and SW51 I do get a 3-blob effect but it was basically gone with the Josaudio. It also has better spatial capabilities and was easier to place instruments.

vs Airist RDAC
Pros
- more relaxed positioning, RDAC is more forward
- more stage depth
- better spatial imaging and layering
- overall tone

Cons
- RDAC has more detail
- softer more rounded
- less micro and macro-dynamics
- treble is more rolled off

The bass was where I thought the DAC struggled a bit, a some songs such as SOHN's "Lights", the bass seems slightly exaggerated and slow. On Leon Bridges "Don't Worry", note this album was recorded dark and a little muddy, so the softness I heard just put it over the top were it's not as enjoyable.

Overall it was a fun DAC to listen to and I'm interested to listen to some other TDA1541 implementations to see if they can retain the great tone but improve on a few aspects of the Josaudio.

Thanks for the loaner and @rhythmdevils for coordinating.