Schiit Yggdrasil MIL discussion (and measurements eventually)

IN A NUTSHELL (FINAL COMMENTS)
MIL BOARD PHOTOS
"SINAD" / "AmirNAD"
GONAD PANEL
MOAR MEHSUREMENTS


By popular request, I've put the MIL boards into the Yggdrasil, let it warm up a few days; and these are my impressions after a few days on and off listening - at times wondering why my DAC sounded so "off", only to have to remind myself "oh, this is the MIL, not LIM".

Please feel free to ask any questions while the boards are in there because I want to yank them out as soon as I can.

I did this because I wanted to give the MIL a real shot. Not the quick shot I did before where I listened to it, said to myself meh, and moved on. By real shot, I mean more than my typical bullshit where I listen for three seconds and proclaim it to be shit. @insidious meme can attest to such stories. The funny thing is, I've never changed my mind. Additional listenings never helped. The most important thing in assessing any piece of audio gear is the control the variables: know the recording down to the specific master, know the amps, know the headphones, and maybe the cables (if you believe cables make a difference). People think I have great ears. I merely have a lot of practice, honing my skills with blind tests, and do a lot of little things (like what I mentioned above) to make it seem I am strong with the Force.

Anyway, a $2400 DAC probably does deserve more time. Here it goes:

My thoughts haven't changed much from from prior MIL impressions here (sorry, you guys will have to read through maybe the first 10 pages of that thread to find my scattered thoughts on the MIL): https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...nd-mil-and-og-impressions-measurements.11391/

The only difference from my initial "mixed" impressions is that I can more confidently say that the MIL kinda more often sounds like ass. What does sound like ass sound like? The sound of two cats f'ing. Now this is just my opinion. Different people are going to have different opinions, system synergies, etc. What I've really like about SBAF is that we can have very different opinions and differences, but none of us gives a shit or feels threatened or butthurt. We've as a group matured to the point where we mostly can agree that we hear the same thing, but differ on whether we like it or not. I think this is awesome.

FWIW, I have tried a variety of amps, headphones, cables, and I just didn't like the MIL or get it to work. I think it's just a lost cause. Allow me to explain its qualities in bullet points:

• The tonal balance is neutral in the overall universe of gear that I have heard. Like what I said before. It's not dark like LIM. There's decent air, but it's not super airy like AKM Velvet (RIP), there's good extended lows, but it's not overly strong like on BF2 or Convert 2, nor warm / bloomy like Yggdrasil A2. Think Soekris DAC2541, which I felt was kind of mid-centric, but with both lows and high extremes filled in.
• The general timbre and fluidity is very much R2R. However there's something on top of the highs that sounds spitty and never quite goes away. It's not immediate with some songs, but becomes evident with extended listening (meaning more than 60 seconds). For example, on tracks with not of stuff going on like Neil Young's* After the Gold Rush which is mostly piano and voice, it took about two minutes for me to get annoyed at the spitty timbre in this voice. On most other rock tracks, this spittiness (upper mids, lower highs) is immediately noticeable. Note that folks who have only experienced Topping DACs (of any price) will likely not be bothered or even notice this.
• I didn't notice this before, but the headstage sounds more collapsed, with less depth than width. Focus and localization precision is still good, but everything is more closed in. Stage is less deep. And we are even closer to the stage than LIM and A2. Ugh. I don't really hear headstage as much as others, but this was noticeable.
• Poor microdynamics. It's on the insipid side on a relative basis - to its price. Is this because of its super high SINAD (well AmirNAD since we are talking specifically 1kHz 0dbFS 20kHz bandwidth). Or is this because of it's sample and hold approach (which of course is a contributor to its super high AmirNAD)
• Some minor congestion in the lows, which I think is related the combination of its insipidness and spitty highs, which makes the lows sound that way. I think this is maybe what Chris Connacker (Computer Audiophile) was referring to in his early blind test impressions that I initially did not understand.

Overall, I feel the MIL is competent, but not worth it's asking price. I continue to have mixed feelings. There are some recordings which work really well with the MIL, for example, the smeared lofi-ish stuff from Wall of Voodoo where the qualities of the MIL make up for the recording's deficiencies. Most of the time, the MIL sounds like ass.

Again, I know there a few people who have purchased the MIL and love it. This is just my opinion, so please don't feel hurt. I would actually be interested to hear your impressions. Different opinions are good and make the world go around.

* Which reminds me, I need to stop listening to Neil Young. I have resolved to not listen to Neil Young's music on Qobuz, that is until Qobuz removes his music. Neil Young's open drug use (marijuana, cocaine, and beer) is a bad influence which has contributed to drug addiction for generations leading to the opioid epidemic of today which has killed hundreds of thousands. I cannot abide by this, therefore I must publicly announce my self-righteous indignation and signal my virtue (stomp on ground like spoiled brat).

 

Photos here (too lazy to take out of rack)



Nothing special with output stage, usual balanced opamp deal.

Will be back with measurements.

 

Yeah, it takes me much longer to get to stuff these days. I'm juggling way more stuff than I ever have in my life - also never in my life had I ever had so my choice in what I can do. It's nuts and I am enjoying it. Unfortunately, that means a bit less time reviewing gear. The PI thread is easy, because I get stuck in super long meetings where I could merely be a guest star for 10 minutes, so spewing random thoughts helps me get through the time.

Anyway, always ask. Ask again. It won't be annoying me. If it does, I will let you know. Usually, it's because I forget or got sidetracked. It something is off the table, I will let you know. I'm at your guys' service, always.

 

Whoa! AmirNAD* is very good! Extremely good for an R2R design.

Yggdrasil MIL
BAL outputs
Unison USB input
48kHz sample rate


By this measurement, the MIL is squarely in the "superior" blue area of the ASR DAC SINAD bar chart.
**

*0dbFS 1kHz 20kHz bandwidth 200k-ohm load
**By the way, some of the Chinese DACs on the ASR leaderboard haven't quite measured as well in my testing and others testing: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ncoz-sgd1-vs-geshelli-jnog.10955/#post-347268

 

GONAD panel


Overall distortion is low. Distortion performance in the highs is a bit worse than in the lows and mids. Note 90kHz bandwidth for THD measurement used here also takes into account ultrasonics.

 

Chord has very much that delta-sigma sound, of which DAVE is the ultimate expression. DAVE doesn't have any tonal oddities as the lesser models do. One knows it's delta-sigma, but it's good delta-sigma done right. My favorite Chord DACs are the DAVE and Mojo. DAVE because it gets most everything right without much wrong. Mojo because it does most of that cheaply. Everything in between seems like bad value or comes with a too much of a compromise.

But really, if the Chord sounds good, stick with that. No point side-grading. Besides, DAVE looks cool with that fancy stand. The Schiit stuff looks too utilitarian. It's looks don't impress anyone. I can't use any Schiit, as my grandmother use to say, a Taiwanese figure of speech: to (keep) inflating a balloon.

 

You basically answered @Cspirou's question.

Allow me to remind all of us again:

That's a loaded question because anything works as a pro DAC. That stuff is the Avid / Digidesign HD Pro Tools IO boxes is pro. As for boutique I've seen Grace, Lynx, Forrsell stuff in the racks of machine rooms. Get this: there is at least one big name in the entertainment industry using a stack of Yggdrasils OG or A2 (not MIL because this persons' crew would probably throw it out the window).

The notion that a pro DAC must sound the way which I have described with the MIL: I blame it on Benchmark and their pro tilted marketing whitepapers. I've never ever seen a Benchmark in a rack in the biz. Benchmark is for audiophiles who want gear with "pro" cred but isn't used by pros.* No sound engineer, mixer, editor, recordist cares about AmirNAD.

*Try racking an AHB2 (it doesn't) or working with the retarded layout on the back panel (speaker out posts directly right over the XLR inputs). The equipment engineer will want to throw it out the window. No one has time for dealing with this shit when they are pro (making a living from it).

 

I like how this person was completely ignored and the conversation continued as if he didn't exist.

--

The MIL only goes to show that when it comes to the middle and higher segments of the market, people don't give a crap between 80db amirNAD and 120 amirNAD.*

I fact, I don't think people really care about amirNAD on entry level gear anymore, with the exception of certain communist patriotic Chinese circles and toxic Reddit nutjobs. There was Doug Self, NWAVGUY, and Amir. History has shown that the THD+N / SINAD movements come and go.

*That is SINAD or THD+N at 0dbFS, 20kHz bandwidth, 1kHz tone, 200k-ohm load (for balanced input). Specifying "SINAD" without mentioning these parameters is nonsense.