ZMF Atrium Headphone Review and Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Mar 20, 2022.

  1. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    I was also wondering how Crinacle derived his target curve? If he did it according to the way he himself hears things, I would be very cautious given how “non-standard” his head shape is (he’s definitely in the top 1% for head size).

    I do appreciate his effort, though, and like @zach915m said, measurements are useful if they are part of a large enough database with lots of references people can actually relate to.
     
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  2. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    If there was a database that included *everyone's* measurements for a given can it would be very useful. Then you can see the general trend to see if it fit your preferences while being a blatant notice to not trust the measurements (due to multiple disparities).
     
  3. Joshvar

    Joshvar Almost "Made"

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    Short Version: As I said in the 2022 Schlong Thread, this isn't for everyone. You should definitely get ears on it if you enjoy aspects of the HD800/HD600/HD650 and thought "maybe they'd make a good set of parents" - this describes me pretty damn well, so this is absolutely for me. It does great things with poor recordings and the macrodynamics to my preferences were highlights that have me searching every couch cushion in Central Texas for loose change. That said, staging is kinda weird to me and my lack of sensitivity to sibilance may play in its favor.

    Long Version: A lot of folks have presented a lot of great information in this thread, and I think it covers a lot of the technical descriptions very well so I'm focusing on the standouts to me along with aspects I haven't seen covered. Triangulating from this thread will serve you very well. Listening was mostly PC -> Unison in BF2 -> Jot2/Bottlehead Crack + Speedball + Upgrades. Preferences have kept me on a HD600 with Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin pads which has outlasted: Focal Clear, HD800, HD6XX, and dissuaded me from Verite Closed, HD8XX, and OG Auteurs (which I still think about and instantly put Auteur Classics on my radar). Biases are toward dry, warm, and smooth typically.

    I ended up with the Auteur pads suiting me - there was more variance between pads than I was expecting which is a double edged sword. Could get expensive at $70 a pop, but we're talking about a very expensive headphone to begin with so between the mesh and pad options, you could probably tune this within a broader band than other headphones. And, for the quality of pads, $70 for a replacement set is a bargain IMO - just makes finding the right ones a bit costly without getting on a loaner tour/working a deal. I didn't spend enough time with all of the pads to properly differentiate after trying the Auteurs. I also stopped giving a shit about combinations/source and went from "I really want to review these" to "Can I justify buying a pair? Let's treat these as daily drivers..." pretty quickly.

    I've loved the design and build of each ZMF headphone I've encountered, but these take the cake for my aesthetic preferences. I love the grill design and size, the wood cups are as glorious as ever, and a solid chunk your money is clearly going toward material, craftsmanship, and build quality. These, like all ZMFs in my opinion, are even more striking in person.

    The comfort of the new headband was immediately noticeable - big improvement for my average Euro-shaped head. I was good all day long, which I did not quite get from the Auteurs and Verite Closed with the old headband design.

    Staging is very much its own thing - not diffuse like the HD800 and not a bit closed in like the HD6X0. To my ears, it is just kind of strange - it is rather wide, but not very deep. It's extremely accurate in width, making me think the headphones were not very well channel matched however this is not the case - it just highlighted positioning with accuracy I hadn't gotten from headphones before.

    The bass is some kind of wizardry. One of my favorite aspects of the stock HD800 was the bass quality and extension but obviously it lacked in quantity without EQ - the HD800S had more quantity but didn't appeal to me as much as the HD800. The Atrium is my favorite bass thus far - it seemed more recording-dependent (rather than gear dependent) than any headphones I've heard. The HD600 + Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin pads are good in quantity, but not as clean and accurate as the Focal Clear - which still didn't have quite the detail and texture of the HD800. The Atrium is just glorious without being an overbearing bass cannon - unless you are listening to Bass Cannon.

    Macrodynamics were amazing to me. The weight from the bass is probably a factor in this, but I felt myself reaching for the volume knob pretty infrequently track-to-track and enjoying the swings it pumped out. Microdynamics were good - I was not focusing as much on them because the macrodynamic strength stood out.

    Even with that, the biggest thing which make these extremely appealing to me is how they handled the crappy recordings I hold dear from the 90s. Nearly every higher end piece of gear I've heard (only exception I'm recalling is the Gungnir MB A1) has highlighted the crap in crappy recordings and made them even harder to enjoy. The Atrium was very kind to them, which may be their secret power.

    So who are these for? Me. These suit me in a way I expected (and my wallet dreaded) from triangulating in this thread. If you wanted to Dr. Frankenstein the HD800/HD600/HD650 into something beautiful - this may be your Monster.

    Who are these not for? If you're looking for sharp transients, air, and natural staging, this may not line up. If you don't like warmth, bass, and Sennheiser mids, you probably won't like these. If you haven't liked a ZMF yet, this is worth a try but don't expect a sea change.
     
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  4. Maven86

    Maven86 Almost "Made"

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    Got to hear the Atrium over the weekend and I'm mad that I'm actually trying justify owning another headphone.

    @zach915m What's your take on some of the impressions that it scales with power? I've read you use a custom 45 DHT to drive your gear. Given its relatively modest output, do you prefer the Atrium with one of your Cayiin 300B amps?
     
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  5. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    The 45 amp I own and the newer A/S Kenzie Rev II are two of my favorite amps with the Atrium and neither has a ton of absolute power. They do tend to "mature" on amps that have power at the 300 ohms placement of power, but not a ton of power is needed. The 300b amps are great, but I always caveat them that you have to know the 300b sound and know that you love it to make it a recommendation. I actually find the HA-6A that uses the KT88/EL34 tubes an easier recommendation (with a tube upgrade) than the 300b due to its tonality.
     
  6. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    My apologies for furthering this confusion on measurements. That was not my intention and this is good info to point out.

    I will say as far as subjective remarks, for myself, I did find them too much energy in that 5k area as I stated before. The precision, layering, staging, and comfort however are all pretty amazing above other most other headphones I have heard. And when I first had them on through the first day I really really enjoyed them, but after they second day it got to be a bit much and slightly fatiguing. That energy though in that area does help balance the lows to the highs and might be two dull without and maybe a bit less energetic. I was too busy to play with EQ and such.

    But seriously I had no idea about the coupler situation and that certainly helps explain things why the ZMF and Marv's measurements look kind of different,.
     
  7. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    Hey sorry you got caught in the crossfire there - it's really a conversation that relates mostly to those who haven't heard the Atrium, or any other headphones that are measured, and how they might not be able to correlate these data points based on varying public measurements.

    Thank you for your comments!!!!
     
  8. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    As a measuring person, I find it interesting (well, honestly frustrating lol) that anything above 4 khz is highly dependent on how ears are modeled -- a set of strong assumptions/simplifications.. Of course this issue is even more confounded by the fact individual HRTFs drastically vary in this region.

    Practically, I've seen the following situations a lot:
    1) Target curve is only meaningful where it was derived -- 'where' can be even tricky.. I'm somewhat thinking different products under iec911 sometimes exhibit larger tolerance than specified..
    2) Of course different headphones are measured differently with different ear couplers.. but what's even worse, the first order difference is easily violated particularly above 4 khz (this seems dependent on which destructive/constructive interference occurs around the couplers and how). This means the difference in log (or ratio in raw voltage) depends on where they were measured.

    Looking at various measurements and comparing them to my perception, I'm pretty much siding with B&K 5128 was the closest to my perception in maintaining the first order difference. But it's really unknown.. at least unproven territory, I think. I added B&K 5128 to my x-mas wish list sent to the Santa Claus.

    Back to the Atrium talk, to me Atrium had very well tamed, non-sibilant, non-withdrawn, and non-dark trebles. My measurement system said a bit different story tho. And I'm seeing people have various subjective opinions on this region, too.
     
  9. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    To be absolutely clear, when I said it needs more power, I'm not talking about HE-6 levels where a power amp can legitimately be considered. However, DNA Starlett doesn't quite cut it; it only outputs 440 mW RMS into a 50 ohm load (not sure what the exact power is into a 300 ohm load). I don't know what the exact number would be, but probably aim for 1 W RMS into 50 ohms in terms of amps. For reference, Cavalli Liquid Carbon does well here.

    I find measurements, at least FR ones, most informative when taken comparatively against other known headphones on the same rig measured by the same person. That being said, there are behaviors certain rigs exhibit with certain headphones where I just don't hear things that way.
     
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  10. Maven86

    Maven86 Almost "Made"

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    Thanks for the clarification, this is helpful. I guess the reason I asked is because I typically use a lower power DHT tube that probably puts less than 1 Watt into 300 ohms. However, the amp also has the option to take 300Bs which would give me a lot more headroom albeit at the cost of some transparency... Which I would rather avoid if possible.

    @zach915m, I believe your 45 amp has a secondary tap for 300 ohm loads. Do you get close to the full 1.5 watts with the Atrium in that setting?
     
  11. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    If you get the chance to try them with suede pads, you may find your issue resolved. I found them helpful but we’re all fatigued by different things so who knows …
     
  12. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    I'll have to go back and ask L0rdGwyn and see what he says. It has a low/med/high setting and the interstage transformers are huge on the thing with a solid state rectification stage, it drives the Caldera well so it has to have some juice.
     
  13. Maven86

    Maven86 Almost "Made"

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    Thanks Zach. I actually spoke with Keenan a few months ago and he briefly mentioned how he spec'd the headphone outs on your amp, it sounds like he did wonderful job with the impedance matching for both high and low Z phones. Unfortunately, I had to build a resistor network on mine so there's a bit more power loss on my end. Also thumbs up on those interstages, I have Slagles in mine as well.
     
  14. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    I snagged what I think was the last Atrium in Macassar Ebony:

    Atrium Macassar.jpg

    Received yesterday. Compared to the loaner, this hardwood atrium seems less strident (5k) and detail and clarity seem to be a bit better, particularly in the vocal region improving naturalness. Then I also now have a Forza Noir Hybrid cable...that and ownership bias probably ;)
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    There's a 5k peak to my ears not unlike what the HD650 has a bit of (perceptually), maybe a bit more. I feel my flat coupler measurements ar underreporting the 5kHz.

    Flat-coupler (no pinna, but attempted compensated toward perceptive-neutral - a flat line across - using a dozen headphones as reference)
    [​IMG]

    UPDATE: with the Marvey Mesh - this is what I'm hearing.
    [​IMG]

    This is why I stopped using EARS and have no interest in GRAS 45 variants, 5128, etc. Ultimately the ears and couplers are different, like people. I can easily afford one of those fancy head things today, but honestly, I have zero interest in them. They don't provide any more accuracy than my el cheapo Home Depot special. Or they end up as more accurate (to perception) for one specific headphone, but then blow chunks for another. Looking for accuracy is a fools' errand. Jude is a just salesperson or tool for B&K, GRAS, etc.

    Frequency response graphs are a tool. TBH, better as diagnostic or tuning tool for humans. @zach915m and I had a public conversation on SBAF a few weeks ago about this: FR does not necessarily describe the total tonal signature of a headphone or speaker. Anyone who think it does is an idiot. FWIW, I'd tried EQ'ing out ZMF headphones to be flat: It just never works with ZMF cans.

    Sometimes I will say that FR measurement is very important. However, the winds have been blowing into too much toward the objectivist direction for too long.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 1, 2022
  16. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    With how wonky the upper mids and above get when measuring headphones, I'd argue EARS makes more sense for measuring IEMs since their canals are simply straight tubes, only their short length makes it hard to fit deeper-insertion IEMs e.g. Etymotics properly.

    Still useful to have the minidsp squiggles as a reference point cuz of how ubiquitous they're getting, but on the topic of being overly objective: yeah megapixel count does not a good sensor make.
     
  17. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    I called the 5k peak "strident", well it can be helpful. Here is an example:

    [​IMG]

    With the Utopia and despite the quality of the overall recording there is a "sleepiness" to the sound of this album, vocals being a touch recessed and muted. The Atrium however seems to "fix" the mix. On the track "Wherever I go" Ruth Moody's signing is breathy and delicate - too much or so I thought until I heard it on the Atrium and now I think I get what the mix was going for. Obviously other aspects of the Atrium's FR and quality plays a part as well but I think the 5k peak has a positive role to play here.
     
  18. Crinacle

    Crinacle Friend

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    I remember telling you this but clarifying again in case anybody takes your statement the wrong way: I have a Type 4620 coming in with an interchangeable left-right pinna. With a proper custom mounting system it can theoretically deliver similar if not identical results to a 5128 (which is basically the flagship B&K HATS using dual left-right 4620s), but of course I'll need to get it first* before I can confirm anything.

    *Already more than 6 month's of delays in this regard
     
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  19. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    Hey that's very cool! The 4620 can take better measurements within the 5128 system for IEMs because of the "reference plane" debacle than any system I know of and help correlate results between open and closed designs because of the impedance/earside matching capabilities. It should be a great tool for you.

    Will you be able to verify the results from your self built 4620 system to the 5128 for both IEMs and full sized headphones after getting it?

    As someone who loves these kinds of comparative tools I do think a process video or something really showing us how you decide to make the measurements, and display them, normalize them etc etc will really help your audience understand where you're coming from as you get this new rig.

    I'm excited that you're working to help the community with all this data, I do worry about the ease of digestion for the general reader.
     
  20. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I mostly agree with you here that FR graphs are just a tool. You would not post them yourself unless it conveyed something. I am also not trying to say that FR everything, I am also not saying that the FR can describe the tonal signature of a headphone. Just to be clear.

    It was more about perception and what compensation was used. Perception or preference vs accuracy. And mostly the perception of bass, which I think relates to more of a preference or what one would consider flat. But like I said, that was more or less a side note and probably better for a different discussion.
     

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