Nearfields for audiophile listening?

ATCs do not lack bass. Seriously do not lack bass.

A 6" woofer isn't going to give you what an 8" or 10" could, but that's not ATC's fault.

I have the passive ATC SCM12 Pro's -- these have the same drivers as the SCM19s (passive or powered) with 12 liters internal volume vs 19 liters. And these things pound in the bass down to ~50 Hz. They're sealed/acoustic suspension, so consider ~50 Hz a hard stop. But I typically use them with a sub to fill in below, and the sound is very impressive.

 

@Pharmaboy I might have a chance to hear a pair of ATCs next week thanks to the advice of @Xecuter . Looking forward to it but have to factor in the cost of a suitable amp.

@Thad E Ginathom There are a few things that drew me to the Genelecs: They look extremely robust and like they have a good life-expectancy, they make setting up easier for a dweeb like me and the "reviews" I've read have been good. The thing with reviews is knowing who to trust. I trust many SBAF members and have come to the conclusion that while some like them, there are better value propositions out there.

I'm drawn to active speakers because it takes the amp element out of audophilia-nervosa, saves space, and should provide a good match to the drivers if the monitors are well designed. Given that I'm listening at a distance of about 8 feet, near fields are also decent candidates.

At this point I'm probably leaning more towards spending my money on improving my headphone rig (a matter of being courteous to neighbors and I have a better capacity to make decisions and judgments about headphones than I do speakers), but if I'm wowed by the ATC's, I might lean back in the other direction.

 

Which ATCs are you going to audition? As for power, any well designed class AB amp with at least 150 wpc will do the trick.

When I got my ATCs, I scored a used Wyred4Sound ST-500 class D (Ice Power) amp that's rated 250 wpc. I needed class D because these amps put out next to no heat, and I needed to place it on my crowded desktop system by resting it on one side (works like a charm). This amp has been quite amazing on the ATCs, as well as several other pairs of speakers. Its sound is very nice, not at all like the way people often describe class D sound. I paid $675 for it used and regard it as a total bargain.

 

I'm hoping to hear the SCM11. Thanks for the amp suggestions.

 

I used to have a set of ATC SCM20's. As sealed speakers go, they obviously don't have that midbass thump, but they also slope down much more gently so I find they actually have better low extension unlike the ported cabs which drop off right away. I haven't had the chance to hear the ported ATC's (the 50's and up), but I've heard they are tuned to be the same and don't behave like a typical ported speaker.

 

According to the specs the ATC SCM11s drop down to -6dB at about 56 Hz, but I guess that this will be affected by positioning etc. I'm not expecting slamming bass on electronica, but I reckon that this might be perfectly adequate for much of my listening, which includes a healthy dose of classical/art music, prog rock and classic rock. The speakers and an amp would eat up my budget, but if I felt the need I could add a sub later.

I'm keeping in mind @Psalmanazar 's comment that the ATCs can be overpriced, but they are the only decent speakers in my price range that I'll be able to listen to in the foreseeable future. If they sound good they'll go to the top of my speaker options.

 

Go for it man! go try em out. Honestly if you can boundary load them in any way, the bass on the atc 2 ways is not a big deal if you're up close and they image wide.

 

Thanks mate. What's boundary loading? Putting them close to a rear wall?

 

Yep. A wall or corner will boost the low frequencies.

 

@Pharmaboy ATC bass is fantastic but it does definitely roll off a bit prematurely to keep distortion lower.
Bass quality is insanely accurate, just the quantity and depth is usually a bit shorter compared to other speakers.
I have the 150s and recon they are a bit bass shy for reference..

 

Wow. Just checked the price of the 150s. Which version do you have?

 

If I had the money, space, and a time machine, I would get an ATC EL 150...

 

I have the ASLT in rosewood.


I'm on the sunshine coast if you ever want to have an audition

 

They must sound amazing @Xecuter . We'll have to catch up some time, but I doubt I'll ever be in the market for something that impressive.

 

On the one hand, you should experience that setup. On the other hand, it may haunt you in your dreams.

 

I had to google the ATC SCM150. That's a big-time 3-way ATC. Never heard any of these higher models.

I should probably explain my system & use pattern, which are probably different from others here and may help explain why sealed/acoustic suspension speakers like the 2-way ATCs work so well here:

• This is a 13' x 13' home office. Fairly heavily furnished, drapes, and so on, but not acoustically treated
• The speakers sit on a desktop (actually, on top of Auralex MoPads) in a nearfield configuration ~3 ft. apart and 3-4 ft. from the listener
• The speakers are 10"-12" from a large picture window behind the desk. The window is covered by large blinds, always extended as far as possible.
• I run the signal from the DAC (MHDT Labs Orchid) through a Marchand electronic crossover (XM66) set to 75 Hz using 24 dB/octave crossover slopes.
  • Frequencies below 75 Hz go to a JL Audio e110 sub in the front right corner of the room
  • Frequencies above 75 Hz go to a Wyred4Sound ST-500 stereo class D amp rated at 250 wpc

This room & placement doubtless provide some reinforcement of midbass frequencies. And because the crossover is set above the ATCs' -6 dB frequency, the speakers aren't asked to do heavy lifting in the deep bass. Finally, this very nice sounding class D amp represents a powerful, highly damped power source, which also helps optimize bass impact.

If I ever placed these ATCs on stands away from boundaries in a larger room, I would no doubt quickly experience their limits. But in this setup, they sound extremely dynamic, including very dynamic sound in the bass, which (being sub-supported) goes down plenty far for this room. They also sound more musical (ie. less forensic/edgy) than I could have hoped.

I have another, even larger pair of sealed/acoustic suspension 2-ways; these are on the desktop at the moment (vintage KEF 102.3s). I'm not sure anyone ever used these in a space constrained nearfield setup like mine, but they are absolutely killer here. I switch between the ATCs and the KEFs periodically.

Final point: not having listened to other ATC models, but going only by literature and reviews, it seems to me that ATC's studio monitor/professional legacy is showing in my SCM12 Pro's, which are marketed as their budget passive monitor for pro's. Most professional installations are nearfield, albeit in treated rooms that may/may not be larger than mine. In most studios, the monitors aren't expected to provide the deepest bass (subs do that)--but they are expected to faithfully reproduce the timbre and impact of bass instruments. My ATCs definitely fit that description.

PS: I've had a number of ported 2-ways in this same system and find their bass uniformly deficient here compared to the ATCs

 

If I were to get the ATC SCM11s, is there any reason why a Schiit Vidar and a passive pre wouldn't work well driving them? 100W seems plenty. Is there anything better you'd suggest for $1K USD or less?

 

If you're asking me, I'm not familiar with the Vidar, though its power rating (100 wpc into 8 ohms; 200 wpc into 4 ohms) suggests a good current reserve. The SCM11 v2s are specified as requiring "75 wpc to 300 wpc." So the Vidar is w/in spec, though on the low end of it.

As for the passive, what matters most is the parts quality, especially the pot; and the impedance match it represents with the amp. Some passives are terrific; others don't sound great. Can't really comment on the passive.

As for good amp alternatives below $1K USD, I just did a quick search. Found 3 of my Wyred4Sound ST-500s F.S. in the U.S. <$1K U.S. But I'm guessing none of the sellers would want to ship it to Australia (shipping cost would be very high).

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=Wyred4Sound+ST-500

My advice is of the keep it simple variety: if the SCM11s rock your world, get them and try the Vidar + passive. If that works out, you're done. If not, upgrade the amp by looking used for something >150 wpc in your country, NZ, etc.

 

I remember the day I replaced my 125W amp with a 50W amp. I was a bit nervous I'd wasted my money. No way! It was one of the few real audible-improvement days in my hifi life. In fact it made me think that I'd previously been listening to noise and distortion!

Power isn't everything. OK, I admit that there are electrical realities, and one doesn't get far trying to light up a mains lamp with a 1.5v battery, but I tend to think of this hard to drive thing as being a bit audiophool-macho!

One thing, though. I listen at very modest levels, even to rock. If I wanted to blast what remains of my hearing with high SPLs then I might find that the power of amp matters?

 

Yes, trying to listen at high SPLs with a low powered amp can be problematic. Many popular music recordings are compressed and don't have great dynamic range, but if you really crank them, the amp can start clipping or sounding bad as it nears the limit.

But listening to music with great dynamic range, even at medium volumes, can also be trouble for low-power amps. Any classical music lover can think of large orchestral pieces that have shockingly dynamic, loud passages which suddenly demand more watts and current than an amp can produce. A well known example is Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overature," the cannon blasts of which are renowned amp killers.

This can also happen with certain other types of music, such as recordings of large diameter Japanese drums struck with large gongs. I'm also pretty sure some large ensemble gamelon recordings can blow up amps.

There are widely scattered ultra-high efficiency speakers that help prevent amp trouble, but that's a whole other topic where some people use flea-powered SET tube amps and never try to play music at higher volumes.