Schiit Lyr+ Review (or random thoughts about it)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by purr1n, Oct 5, 2022.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I had no intention of reviewing the Lyr+ until a few members pointed it out at the Texas Show and I started getting questions on it. This will be going out on the loaner tour. I will take measurements later because I am curious about the solid-state mode and tube mode. FWIW, the sound-state mode actually sounds pretty good and actually may be preferable to the tube mode depending upon what you are looking for. The Lyr+ will default to this if there is no tube in the socket. (Note that I never cared for the LISST solid-state tubes). The solid state circuit is built into the amp, so there's no need to drop in any silver dildo nuggets. I will proceed with a question and answer format:

    Q: Is it worth getting the Lyr+ over the Lyr 3?

    I'd say if you are satisfied with the Lyr 3 and have it set up to how you like things, then don't bother if you are strictly coming from a sonic performance point of view. The Lyr+ improvement is incremental. I suspect it's quieter, I know it's more refined sounding, less laid-back, more neutral, and the bass articulation is better. However the Lyr 3 DNA is still there. The transients are not super delineated. It's not a slow-ass sounding amp, but it is rounder sounding like Aegir or Tyr. The sonic improvements of the Lyr + are too close to trump synergy if you've already got it with the Lyr 3. However, there are serious quality-of-life improvements (to borrow a term from the gaming world.)
    • The Lyr now has a relay attenuator, not just that, but the relay action is smooth, a huge huge improvement over the ratchey-ratchey rat-rat-ratchet found on the OG Freyas and Sagas (I am not sure if Schiit has improved the action of their preamps).
    • As I have already mentioned, there's a solid-state backup plan, that sounds good in its own right. Compared to the new production Tung-Sol 6SN7, the solid-state mode is smoother, less grainy, and not as bright, but the Tung-Sol is more laid back in the upper mids. The differences are small. Tube and solid-state modes can be toggled via the remote or on the face of the amp by holding down button 5 gain select for a few seconds (this last bit I don't think is in the manual - I had to ask the guy who programmed the remotes down here in CC).
    • A remote control, enough said.
    • Buttons now replace any switches up front. Input selector for two inputs is a button. Gain is a button (there's a delay on the output so you have time to turn down the volume knob). Preamp output enable and disable is a button (I know folks with dual headphone / speaker use have been asking for this).
    • The UFO dish thing is concave making it much easier to remove tubes.
    • Did I mention how nice the action is with the volume knob and relay attenuator?
    Q: How does this work with the Mini C?

    Fantastically and surprisingly synergistically. Normally I just plug the Mini C into whatever. However, sometimes in the world, we find magical combinations where everything works together. It not always a matter of covering for each others weaknesses, although there is a bit of that going. Examples are Folkvangr and Grado (and I dislike Grado from 95% of the time when amps), Audeze LCD series with Monoprice LG (an amp that I dislike from any traditional dynamic headphone), and Stellaris/ECSB/3F with Focal Utopia. I thought Mini C couldn't scale, but Mini C makes me happy from the Lyr +.

    The robust and rich presentation of the Lyr + really helps with the Mini C which can sound lean on "hi-fi" sounding gear, but there's something else going on. We'd think that the more rounded transients of the Lyr + would hurt the Mini C, which isn't as lively as the Mini S, but somehow it just works. Maybe it's because its playing to its strengths instead of forcing the Mini C to do something it doesn't do.

    As a sidenote, I should mention that I did my listening with a Modius ES as the source (a DAC that deserves more attention as @Qildail pointed out in the schlong nominations thread). The opamp modded Modi MB was also used. The only combination which really posed an a dilemma as with the HD58X. The Lyr+ sounded grainy and edgy with this headphone. Part of it is with the HD58X itself. I am pretty sure a laid-back black triangle plate 6SN7 would have taken care of this. I will try this later to confirm. If I don't say anything in the two weeks, then assume what I said is true.

    Q: Weren't you so impressed with the Lyr 3 that you asked Jason for a Continuity version of the Vidar which ended up as the Aegir?

    Yes. I know the Lyr 3 was a not favorite or big seller, but it was my favorite Schiit headamp when it came out. It really showed the potential of Continuity - that is Jason's solution (inspired by the TubeCAD guy) to dealing with the transconductance doubling issue when amps went from Class A to Class AB.

    Q: So is the Lyr + more neutral than the Lyr 3?

    I would say it's not as laid-back, maybe just a nick less thick sounding, but differences are not huge. Tube rolling will make a difference. I suspect the JAR600 or HD600 would do fantastically with it. Tha ZMF Auteur sounded great as well. All this with the provided new production Tung Sol, which I do think is on the modern sounding side - and not much thought put into the source (It's a good sounding tube).
     
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  2. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Awesome thanks for this @purr1n . Any sense whether the pre-outs are competitive with something like Saga (or even SYS) from a transparency perspective? Or mainly just a convenience like other Schiit amps, but not all that exceptional performance wise?
     
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  3. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    The above qualities make it a good pairing for Focal's as well. I have hardly turned on my DNA amp lately as I have been thoroughly enjoying the Lyr+ with the Utopia. What surprises me most is the quality of the headstage and related imaging precision, tube or SS mode.

    My experience is no. I wanted it to replace the Saga OG I have in front of my DNA amp, but too much of the Lyr+ flavor comes through. The Saga is much more transparent.
     
  4. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    @crenca, thanks for sharing. When convenient would you be willing to share your impressions of how the Lyr+ differs from the DNA amp and any others that you've used with the Utopia?
     
  5. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Compared to the DNA Stalett, the Lyr+ is more tonally neutral, whereas the DNA while not "bright" does have more upper mid energy. Like Marv says both amps are "rounded" in transient behavior emphasis (but let's not make too much of this - neither are "slow"), which synergizes well with the Focals. The Lyr+ plays very well with the Atrium for example which indicates it's not a "slow" amp per se. The Lyr+ does not have any of that Asgard 3 thickness overly rounded everything. The stage is not a flat wall like the Jot's and most other SS amps I have heard in the < $1k range. No, it's not the equal of the Starlett but it's not that far off. The Starlett has that last bit of detail, air, subtlety of detail in and around voices/instruments, and "you are there liveliness" but again I'm surprised at how close the Lyr+ gets in these technicalities - I'm not immediately disappointed like when I go from the Starlett to the Jot/Asgard.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    ^ Cannot emphasize enough. Not slow. Hardly syrupy. I'd call it normal, doesn't call attention to itself, as opposed to zippy. Bass, although there is some bloom to the notes, is still plenty tight on the transients. This particular aspect could be improved from the Lyr 3 as I recall this was a major complaint with the Lyr 3. Starlett has better microdynamics and ultimate resolution (Lyr + is still a hybrid with solid-state output stage, thus still cannot beat tubes). One thing to note is that the Lyr + few traits of tube richness, tone, timbre, it's not wet or tubey sounding, say like Freya or Starlett.

    The obligatory photo of the Lyr + is below with a 7N7 (6SN7 with metal base) on an adapter, which is one of my favorite 6SN7 types. The short glass (basic) 7N7 isn't bright, is super smooth in the highs, but has plenty of air and sweet tone.

    DSCF0294 (Medium).JPG
    Schiit Lyr + with 7N7 on an adapter, ETA Mini C headphones to the left

    P.S. I think this is Schiit's best headamp, not counting the Folkvangr, and even then, the Folkvangr is limited with what it can power and is a much more interpretative experience. I could just stop here and be happy.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
  7. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    How would Lyr+ fare with LCD-X (definitive edition)? Would it be a synergistic pairing?
    I personally thought LCD-X (unmodded) was a decent match with Lyr 3.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    For sure. Even stock LCD-X would fare well. There quite a bit to adjustability with the 6SN7. I have a small treasure chest all of 6SN7 types that I acquired years ago. Can also play with sources too. I decided to use Modius ES because it's available (and also because someone local who had one and was super impressed with it actually put it on a small speaker system for me to hear. I actually think the bigger news is that Schiit somehow made an ESS based DAC that didn't sound like shit). I need to interview the Schiit digital guys and ask them what they did to the Modius to make it sound so much betterer than the Modi. (I think they are both based on the same low-end ESS chip).
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
  9. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Any comparisons with the SW51? I wish I had the functionality of my Jot2 with the sound of my SW51. Would this be a reasonable side/upgrade to condense my setup?
     
  10. jnak00

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    I did that exact consolidation, replacing Jot 2 and SW51 (and a Saga S) with the Lyr+. Compared to the SW51, it is a side grade, maybe a bit of an upgrade depending on your tastes. Lyr+ has better bass but a bit less of that clarity and separation that SW51 has. I would say it is generally a step up from Jot 2 though.
     
  11. joch

    joch Friend

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    Modi = 9018; analog stage OPA1656 with precision thin-film resistors, DC coupled

    Modius = 9028; analog stage LME49724 for balanced output, OPA1656 for SE output, both independent, with precision thin-film resistors and film capacitors, DC coupled

    The anolog stages are the same for SE, so I guess the 9028 makes it betterer than the Modi?
     
  12. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    Unlikely it sounds better. May measure better. In my experience the good implementations of 9016/9018/9028/9038 family all sounded weirdly similar (OK but unengaging), despite being from different manufacturers. While the less good ones varied from "a little bright" to godawful.

    Perhaps the Modius has a better implementation, could be down to cost or other reasons but I don't think it's the DAC chip.

    PS: 9018 and 9028 are better described as earlier generation flagship than "low end"
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Basically what @jnak00 said, it's mostly different. However, I do feel the SW51 is overall potentially more transparent. A teeny bit fewer errors of omission and less errors of commission (SW51 is just flat out a neutral amp). HD650 variants or JAR600 even goes with SW51, especially with classical R2R sound DAC. (The HD580 was fantastic from the that Abbas DAC at the Texas Show, and same using the Rockna Wavedream). The issue is that the SW51 sucks with modern planars which are hitting as low as 20, 16, 10-ohms impedance even. I dislike modern sounding DACs paired with the SW51.

    The Lyr + I lets us get away with a broader universe of sources and headphones, especially planars. The SW51 we can obtain slightly better sound, but the path is much more narrow and specialized. The SW51 equivalent to the Lyr + is the Night Blues Mini or ZDT Jr. I loved that amp. I know the NBM was criticized for its organic bass. People bitch too much or don't realize awesomeness until it's too late*. I wish @Zampotech would make a compliment to the SW51 like the NBM / ZDT Jr. :D

    * Do you guys remember a few years ago when people were selling their used EC Zana Deux for $1100 and Super 7s for $800? I blame the Head-FI hype train and Currawong for this. Today, to get one of these used, you'd have to pry one from the clutches of one's dead body.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
  14. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    I'm semi-annoyed with myself for selling my ZDT Jr. I had one that didn't hum at all, and it sounded great with HD600 and Elex in particular. I found it fattened them up nicely. But I have too many amps and sorely needed to clean house. Great piece though.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yup. HD600 and Elex, both magical with the ZDT Jr. My NBT / ZDT Jr. made it to a good home @hikergrl via @brencho.
     
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  16. SnowPuppy

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    Glad you posted a review on the Lyr+. I am interesting in replacing my Asgard 2 that sits on my roll top desk and have been considering either a Jotunheim or a Lyr+ among others. Want to spend around $1k or less. My headphones are Senn HD800S and some Grados (RS1 button, 225 original, Hemp braided cable, RS1X).
     
  17. Justin S

    Justin S Friend

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    I would be curious to hear about how the synergy is with the 800S as well. I am wondering if the Lyr+ would add some tube goodness to them. I have a BHA-1 right now but wonder how they would sound with tubes.
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    HD800/S would be fantastic. Grados (the OG, RS1X with stock or Gerrod pads) also excellent. I didn't like the F-cush Grados with the Lyr + as much. The Lyr + is a better amp than the Asgard 2 (which was decent).

    I wouldn't say that Lyr + is particularly tubey. If I were paying attention, you'd have me fooled which mode I was in. The Lyr + is more "Continuity" sounding than tube sounding if that makes sense. Lyr + tubey is like the Saga tubey, which is very minimal. However, there is the tube staging, which @crenca mentioned and I concur. Many Schiit amps have been criticized for a small headstage. Not so much hear. Sure all tube amps like the DNA Starlett are better in this regards, but Lyr + is closer to this than to most other solid-state headamps.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Lyr +
    0dBu (a little bit higher actually) into 300-ohm load
    Steady state 1kHz signal, 2Vrms input, volume knob adjusted to arrive at output
    Tube mode 7N7 (randomly picked out) on adapter
    Low gain
    upload_2022-10-8_14-2-38.png

    Wow, the 2nd harmonic is well below 100db from the fundamental. In theory, good luck hearing this or any of the other harmonics!

    Lyr +
    -10dBu (a little bit lower actually) into 300-ohm load
    Steady state 1kHz signal, 2Vrms input, volume knob adjusted to arrive at output
    Tube mode 7N7 (randomly picked out) on adapter
    Low gain
    upload_2022-10-8_14-1-11.png

    Lyr +
    -20dBu (a little bit higher actually) into 300-ohm load
    Steady state 1kHz signal, 2Vrms input, volume knob adjusted to arrive at output
    Tube mode 7N7 (randomly picked out) on adapter
    Low gain
    upload_2022-10-8_14-5-31.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2022
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Lower impedance. Note I'm running 26.4 ohm load instead of usual 32 since orthos have been creeping down in impedance the past few years.

    Lyr +
    0dBu (a little bit higher actually) into 26.4-ohm load
    Steady state 1kHz signal, 2Vrms input, volume knob adjusted to arrive at output
    Tube mode 7N7 (randomly picked out) on adapter
    Low gain
    upload_2022-10-8_14-10-35.png

    Lyr +
    -10dBu (a little bit higher actually) into 26.4-ohm load
    Steady state 1kHz signal, 2Vrms input, volume knob adjusted to arrive at output
    Tube mode 7N7 (randomly picked out) on adapter
    Low gain
    upload_2022-10-8_14-11-53.png

    At the highest output, the second harmonic on the blue channel rises to -97db from the harmonic. Good luck hearing this specific phenomenon.

    Overall conclusion here is that Lyr + barely breaks a sweat with current hungry low impedance orthos.
     
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