iFi Zen DAC V2 Review (including impressions on Signature version)

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Oct 27, 2022.

  1. Entropy

    Entropy Facebook Friend

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    Strange. That shouldn't be the case, no? [​IMG]
     
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  2. WoodyLuvr

    WoodyLuvr Friend

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    @jexby Totally concur regarding the variable option being useful with certain transducers.

    BTW: I too noticed this about the output regarding maximum variable vs fixed setting (unbalanced)... I thought it was my imagination. I almost mentioned this in another thread but thought better of it thinking that it was a peculiar hiccup of my chain and/or my older ears can no longer be trusted :p!
     
  3. ColdsnapBry

    ColdsnapBry Almost "Made"

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    Should I go with this over the Modius E with a SW51+ via single ended and hd650 ?@purr1n

    Any better options in a similar price range?
     
  4. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    Res ipsa loquitur
     
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  5. Type35

    Type35 New

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    Concerning the variable output for Zen DAC Signature V1 and V2, here is your answer (from John Atkinson's measurements in Stereophile): "Turning to the ZEN DAC Signature, I measured both the original version, serial number 5502000155, and the V2 version with which JMu did most of her auditioning, which had the serial number 5320000008. The two versions measured identically in all but one respect, which was the maximum output level in variable gain mode. The V2's maximum output in this mode was 2.07V balanced and 1.04V unbalanced, both values 6dB lower than the maximum outputs in fixed gain mode. While the original ZEN DAC's maximum levels in fixed mode were almost identical to those of the V2, at 4.3V balanced and 2.2V unbalanced, the maximum levels in variable mode were 6.7V and 3.35V, respectively. Distortion was very high at these levels, with crossover artefacts visible on the oscilloscope. The V2's reduction in the maximum output voltage is a desirable change."
    I suspect this has been done to push the pot higher on variable output and avoid channel imbalance issues. iFi has changed its pot screening QC process and no longer discard bad tracking pots (roughly 2/3 of them as per Thorsten Loesch).
     
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  6. Abhishek Chowdhary

    Abhishek Chowdhary Friend

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    Anyone wanting more natural/delicate sound from the v2, the non mqa firmware improves it a bit over stock fw. Stock fw is a tad too cold/disjoint in midrange. Upper treble grain too is mitigated a bit.
     
  7. WoodyLuvr

    WoodyLuvr Friend

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    Which firmware are you speaking of? Firmware 7.3b or Firmware 7.4 (all flavours)
     
  8. Abhishek Chowdhary

    Abhishek Chowdhary Friend

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  9. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    The non MQA firmware is the first thing i download and install on every iFi product i receive. so non MQA is already in the ZEN DAC Signature V2 that will go on tour. and non MQA was put on the iFi bars before those went around also….
     
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  10. WoodyLuvr

    WoodyLuvr Friend

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    Well, color me stupid; color me gone. Thank you for the advice! Downloaded the Non-MQA update for my ZEN DAC Signature v2 and with noticeable improvement as indicated. Godsmacked.

    upload_2023-1-30_0-58-27.png
     
  11. Abhishek Chowdhary

    Abhishek Chowdhary Friend

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    @WoodyLuvr You may also want to drop buffer to as low as possible. IME, higher buffer = opaque sound
     
  12. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    This paragraph was what got me interested in the Zen DAC line. I love big, bold, sharp sounding presentations that don't veer into harshness, and have never had $2k to spare on the Burl, so Marv's description of the Zen DAC as sharing similar presentation qualities (minus technicalities) really got me excited. The big downside for me was all of these DACs are USB only. Well, damn it, I'd spent a long time doing everything I could to get away from USB and I have a Pi2AES with a power supply upgrade and it would be an absolute shame not to use it, plus a CD transport which I also like to use directly to a DAC.

    Enter the Zen One Signature. Everything I wanted from an ifi DAC, multiple digital inputs, same chips, signature component upgrades, none of the things I didn't, like a bundled headamp or built in volume control. I found a deal on a used unit and jumped on it.

    Well, I can confirm that the Zen One Signature sounds as Marv describes it above--plenty of slam in the low end, strong attacks on transients without harshness, a little inherent warmth. There is a catch though--it really only sounds like this on USB. Trying the coax with the Pi2AES using Ropieee with Roon, it sounded darker, softer...kind of mushy if I'm being honest. Yes, drum hits still had some snap to them and the low end had good articulation, but there was a noticeable roll off on the high end, a nearly 2D soundstage, and everything sounded squashed together.

    Switch to USB, and the high end opened up, there was air, space between instruments, a deeper soundstage, and a dead silent blackground. Everything tightened up, came into focus, and it actually sounds pretty impressive. I'm just annoyed that the additional digital inputs, the seeming selling point for this particular DAC, which at $350 is currently the most expensive Zen DAC, sound significantly worse than the USB. Actually, I'm more than annoyed. I'm pretty upset because not every use case I could have for a DAC in my house has an easy or good USB option. The coax input on the Zen One sounds borderline broken to me. I hope this is something ifi can fix or address in a firmware update. And speaking of firmware, why does every other ifi product have a non-MQA firmware but so far this one doesn't? Is it too new? Is it in the pipeline? @iFi audio can you check with your team to see if a non-MQA firmware is on the roadmap for the Zen One Signature?

    I haven't tried it with my CD transport yet. With the Abbas .11SE, the CD transport was a step up from the Pi2AES, but it wasn't night and day. I would be surprised if the CD transport could get the Zen One Sig coax input to suddenly sound as good as the USB input. It is possible a much higher end digital source could improve the sound from the coax input, but if you're using such a high end source it seems silly to connect it to what is at the end of the day a near entry level DAC.

    TL;DR: Buy a Zen DAC v2 or v2 Sig unless you really need to stream bluetooth directly to your DAC and save yourself money because the coax input ain't doing it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
  13. TamHo

    TamHo New

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    It seems that Ifi holds many insightful tech in usb application. The MQA fw is not good to my ears. Very digital and shallow sounding. I installed it after reading IFI's tech page on MQA fw (though I didn't understand anything). Then switching back to non-MQA very easily and fast.
    Anyone here tried to driver headphones with 4.4mm line-out from Ifi Zen dac signature? I did it with my Hd6xx and it sounds crystalline clear but lacking of note-weight at long listening.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2023
  14. Seventhson

    Seventhson New

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    hello, I'm a long time lurker and this thread made me register
    For now I mainly listen to music while working on my computer via an audient id interface and focal monitors.
    I'd like to buy a little dac, and have 2 criterias :
    - something musical, engaging, smooth rather than analytical
    - something dealing well with dsd (for a long time I've wanted to test this format and buy a few dsd files)

    Reading @purr1n review of the Zen Dac V2 it seems I'm in the right place here with ifi, but I'd like to know if the Zen Signature Dac V2 (not the Zen One) is worth the extra money? I ask because I can afford the extra 100$, I don't need the headphone output, but I don't know if the "sonic signature" (mini Burl B2 Bomber comparison) is still there and I don't want that with extra details comes extra harshness for example. It would be great if someone had the chance to compared both.
    Thank you.
     
  15. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Well, I have to eat some crow. Since writing this, I tried the SPDIF input again and now it sounds amazing. Now, there have been some changes since I last posted. First, the Zen One has been on continuously since I first got it. Second, I swapped out my Blue Jeans Cables BNC->RCA SPDIF cable for a World's Best Cables SPDIF cable. Third, I swapped by Saga+ for a Freya N. Of these three, I think the Freya is making the least amount of difference in that the Saga was exceedingly transparent and certainly wasn't causing any of my other sources to sound dark or muddy. So it's either the BJC cable is terrible, or the Zen One needs some amount of on time before it sounds its best.

    Whatever happened, it's for the better. The SPDIF input now sounds fantastic. Great detail, powerful low end, nice dynamics and a bit of sparkle to the top end without veering into harsh territory. The inner warmth Marv described is there, but absent is the mud and the "wrong" sound I was getting before. And this is with just the SE out. Now that I have the Freya in the system I ordered a 4.4mm->XLR adapter to see if that offers any further performance gains. I'm honestly shocked at how this turned around. I would now say that the SPDIF input sounds better than the USB input, which already sounded very good.
     
  16. JK47

    JK47 Friend

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    Swap the BJC cable in and report back.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
  17. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Okay, this is my first time A/B'ing cables specifically. I'm using the track "Friend of the Devil" by Grateful Dead because it has a multiple acoustic guitar parts, a prominent bass, and intricate drum work. When well rendered, all of these elements come through cleanly and distinctly. I can shift my attention from the bass to the guitars to the drums or just soak it all in at once. With bad reproductions, it becomes a tangled mess.

    Going back and forth between the two cables, I would say that the BJC on its cannot be solely responsible for the sound I was initially getting off the Zen One. It must be burn in/warm up. There are differences, and I do think the BJC cable is slightly darker than the WBC, but not enough to wholly transform the sound.

    However, the ergonomics on the BJC sucks. Super stiff, versus the more flexible WBC. Both are properly rated at 75 ohms.
     
  18. JK47

    JK47 Friend

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    I have both flavors of the BJC coax SPDIF cables with the Belden 1695A being more flexible than the solid conductor Belden 1505F. I'm wondering if the stiff 1505F cable, and the long BJC Canare RCA connectors led to the demise of the coax out of my 502DAC, and Pi2AES. Maybe too much leverage on the coax out for the the tiny pi Hats to handle.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
  19. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    I ended up getting rid of my BJC SPDIF cables because I was afraid they would end up eventually killing a connector on something.
     
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  20. Elmer Danilovich

    Elmer Danilovich MOT:Earmen, HeadAmp, Bricasti; AKA:MShenay

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    Ecstatic to see your endorsement of this outstanding product, I tell a lot of folks getting started in the hobby to buy one of these, a nice pair of headphones and then just enjoy their system. It's crazy to think how good "entry-level" gear has gotten
     
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