HifiMAN HE6SE measurements and short review

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by Vtory, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. Philimon

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    Are focus-a pads always better than whatever came stock on any round HFM (aside from 4XX where focus-a is stock)?
    Amongst HFM round pads, focus-a are unusual hybrids because the inner edge is not perforated but full-cloth. It also seems to be a smidge thinner than other HFM pads and to compress a little bit more. This reduction in width allows your ear to be closer to driver so you take a bit of edge off the highs which is always welcome on any HFM ime.

    HE6se focus-a.jpg
    HE6se focus-a VS HE6se stock.jpg

    edit: nvm, need to marinate. I am avoiding “mods” like using a physical front filter other than simple padroll. EQ if necessary.
    edit2: HFM focus-a has a tad too much sheen on cymbals, 4-5kHz peak. Looking at my notes and it seems New Fantasia sheepskins had much potential... great but very slight bass bloom (which would be negligible to most anyone else). Maybe I could poke a vent into solid outer layer for pressure relief for when i do rare hours long bass heavy electronic music marathons while playing video games. Anyways, don't think I want to try (buy) any more pads.
    HE6se focus-a VS HE6se New Fantasia sheepskin.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
  2. Philimon

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    Cross referencing this snippet comparison between HE6se vs HE500. 4XX pushed me to try and understand and describe since feels like it has less treble glare / better blackground (less greyness) in treble presence region vs HE6se. Needs careful study before making bold claims, and how much is effect of frequency response, or pads (acoustic impedance, reverb, absorption). In comparison to HE500 (4-screw), HE6se should compensate with otherwise higher levels of resolution and cleaner bass and I believe it does but still need to a/b compare with notes to confirm and describe in detail. HE500 I suspect might be the preferred compromise if were to have only one. To be continued...
     
  3. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    [​IMG]
    HIFIMAN HE6se (v2) VS HE500 (4-screw)
    * Im sorta writing this one backwards and putting measurements ahead of subjectives. In order of importance, subjectives comes first always. My organization and formatting of this review could use improvement. Enjoy!


    HE6se stock pads vs HE6se New Fantasia sheepskin pads:
    HE6se stock VS HE6se New Fantasia sheepskin.jpg
    - Stock pads are a little too Grado-esque. While exciting, the extra spice in the presence region would lead to fatigue over extended listening session.
    - New Fantasia sheepskin (nfs) pads darken the highs and improves bass definition and impact a little bit.
    - nfs pads is what Ill be using for this comparison


    HE500 is using Dekoni hybrids for HFM:
    [​IMG]
    - I bought used HE500 drivers from a kind HFer that had them stored in his basement for years. I found some dead ants inside. I transplanted the drivers to 4XX enclosure and headband.
    - Dekoni hybrid pads is what Ill be using for this comparison


    =======================================

    - Using the same pads (T60RP), HE500 and HE6se tonal difference via measurements is this.

    - CSD measurements:
    HE6se New Fantasia sheepskin CSD.jpg
    HE500 Dekoni hybrid CSD.jpg
    Whether the CSD measurements are accurate to what's reaching my ears is highly debatable. Presented anyway for your entertainment.

    My HE6se and HE500 have very good L/R balance.

    - CSD and L/R balance measurements taken were with my FPC, frequency response measurements were taken with EARS as I find the custom compensation curve better suited to matching my perceptions of mid-highs. I prefer a little more bass than what my EARS measures consider neutral. I am using an SBAF compensation curve for EARS. An aside, why dont we say HEARS?

    =========================================


    Macbook > Eitr > Modi MB v2 > Jot2 (SE in, Balanced out, low-gain) > aftermarket cable because stock cable is short and new one is prettier which adds at least +1 to sound quality. No, I couldnt tell a difference from stock cable because my blind ab test method was flawed as in I didnt care to try.
    [​IMG]

    Subjective Comparison:
    TLDR version:
    • Tonal character difference: actually quite similar, its like the difference between an HD580 (500) and HD600 (6se), however 500 is a little more cohesive overall but presumably careful padrolling could resolve HE6se's frequency response issues.
    • Technical quality difference: HE6se is basically HE500+. Basically in every technical quality HE6se is an improvement.
    • HE6se negatives: needs padroll, needs ergonomic support, needs amp.
    • HE500 negatives: needs padroll, out of production and not easily available second hand, no warranty or return period!
    • HE6se positives: $400shipped when on sale.
    • HE500 positives: easier to drive, a little more cohesive tonally which counts for a lot
    • For various reasons both HFM are worth consideration over LCD2C (2022) and LCDX (2022), all depends on your preferred compromises.

    Long story version:

    - HE500 is much more sensitive relative to HE6se.
    - typically HE6se would require full digital output and about 9-10 o’clock on Jot2 w/ low-gain
    - typically HE500 would require between 1/2 to 2/3 MacBook output and 9 o’clock on Jot2 low-gain
    - i don’t go lower than 9 o’clock because I get nervous about channel imbalance
    - HE6se headband is painful after 15min. Needs headband support such as this one I am using. At least lighter weight than Audeze.

    - HE6se is a little more microdynamic in comparison to HE500. This is the biggest upgrade difference you’re getting coming from HE500.
    - you can hear more undulation in practically every thing
    - micro dynamics as explained by @purr1n
    - microdynamics is a milestone to what seperates hi-fi
    - I would add to that milestone is the development of a sense of image depth (z-axis)
    - both characteristics are elusive (at least here in mid-fi)
    - micro dynamics to me is clear cut and associated only with higher resolving headphones
    - image depth im sure is related to higher resolution but i think it might partly get mixed with frequency response, soundstage, imaging, transients, and reflections / reverb, so Im not so sure which headphones are more resolving or just have the right combination of attributes.
    - Neither HE6se or HE500 translate to me as having strong image depth.
    - HE500 soundstage is small and sorta wraps tightly around head. HE6se is an improvement on width and height.​

    - Transients are a little improved over HE500. Everything sounds a little more defined and snappier due to quicker attack.

    - HE6se provides a bit more micro detail in comparison to HE500. However, in higher frequencies (eg. cymbals) it’s more difficult to tell when HE6se is actually more detailed or if it’s just highlighting stuff with its slight peaks in frequency response, probably a combination of both. From memory in terms of micro detail, the gulf between HE500 and HE6se is much smaller than the gulf between LCD2C and LCDX. Micro detail and clarity was LCDX’s greatest strength and is a full level up from HE6se. LCDX negatives were the physical weight, high sensitivity, the limp bass and slightly too bright-ness. Im sure LCDX sound flaws could be mitigated with padrolling just like HE6se.

    - Bass, neither are bass monsters but they are above average ime in terms of macrodynamics and distortion, quantity is adequate (for reference, I like my T50RP mod because the bass is a lot). From memory, HE500 bass = LCD2C (2022) bass. HE6se would be a tad better than either in terms of microdynamics. LCDX (2022) bass was its biggest flaw, a bit limp noodle in the lowest bass.

    - Mids, basically the same descriptions used in bass section but remove “bass” with “mids”.

    - Highs, HE500’s major win over HE6se is the more cohesive frequency response, highs specifically. HE6se highs a little peakier, not painful nor distracting, just could be smoother. Cymbals sometimes tend to be too forward in the mix than I’d prefer. However, some of HE6se’s peaky highs in presence region may be beneficial to electric guitar so pick your poison. For reference, HD600 is too bright.

    - Clarity, my guess is that its mostly related to distortion levels, even frequency response, and low noise floor. Even frequency response is a personal thing. I think an even / cohesive frequency response results in higher clarity because harmonics are not masked or hidden by dips and peaks in the frequency response. Distortion needs to be low of course and is why I think the LCDX 2022 has better clarity over HE6se. A low noise floor from environment noise isolation (some closed headphones and iem) allow you to hear low level signals easier.

    - Fatigue, HE6se is slightly fatiguing over extended listening. Explainable by the tiny peaks in highs. ymmv as I am generally sensitive to this stuff in particular. Whether CSD relates to fatigue is my conspiracy theory.


    Conclusion:

    Even if you already own HE500, HE6se at $400 is worth a buy if you're willing to padroll.

    - Further reading:
    HE500 vs LCD2C vs LCDX comparison
    More LCDX notes

    - If you have questions then ask.

    edit: for grammar, clarificiation, and fixed graphs
     
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    Last edited: Feb 4, 2023

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