Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (and MIL and OG) Impressions + Measurements

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Sep 9, 2021.

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Should SBAF get a loaner Yggdrasil Less Is More?

  1. Yes, please!

    75.4%
  2. Only if there isn't anything else more interesting

    11.5%
  3. No, I would prefer for a loaner an overpriced planar that looks like it's from House Harkonnen

    6.2%
  4. Save up for something better

    6.9%
  1. bobdac

    bobdac New

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    I listen to BF2 in NOS mode with some Gaussian filters. I find it more correct with classical music than MBF. The first rounds of upsampling are the most important. I doubt you can notice much difference going above 192khz but have nevet tried it. The thing is due to how my transport works I need to oversample it before sending it to Yggie so would like to have the Yggie+ aswell, but living in Europe will probably wait to upgrade something else at the same time.
     
  2. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Santa came early...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Finally got to own this DAC after stopping off at Gungnir Multibit A2 land, and everything I said in my review still stands. But a few new things come to light, especially compared to GA2 (all IMO):

    Does not have the tone density/color of GA2, but the timbre is still hauntingly natural/beautiful, just less vibrant than GA2. LIM seems to bring out inner timbre better though, leading to more faithfully reproduced classical pieces.

    Hearing an orchestra expand and contract on a dime like it's a living organism is breathtaking (Ravel's "Daphins Et Chloe" - Dutoit / DECCA, is a good test for this) and something I did not hear so much on GA2. Stops and starts of notes is also more obvious. But none of this detail is exaggerated or pushed on you... remains naturally integrated into the whole so that you can remain engaged in the experience rather than sucked into individual parts. Vocal inflections/intonations are alot more obvious than GA2, hearing little weird things I don't remember hearing in certain vocals that change the mood/tone of songs. Focus and layering are also noticeably improved, with imaging being clearer and those images remaining clear no matter how many other things are going. Obviously an asset to classical music. GA2 is extremely good at this as well, but LIM is a level up.

    And this is related to the overall speed of the DAC, which is extremely noticeable (not highlighted but noticeable) and because it's more even tonally compared to other DACs I've owned (basically every other Schiit DAC, besides the original BF multibit), the speed is better able to showcase the intricacies of individual parts (again, without putting much of a spotlight on them)... especially since nothing is being buried or overcast with tonal sins (Yggdrasil A2 was more emphasized in the treble / lower mids... GA2 in the upper mids with a bit of treble emphasis as well). GA2 does sound a bit shouty and thin in comparison (though it is NOT a thin or shouty DAC, just in direct comparison to LIM). Which is to say LIM sounds slightly thick, but not detrimentally so. In the short time I owned Yggdrasil A2, I found that DAC a bit overly thick. LIM falls somewhere in between GA2 and YA2, a spot I welcome with open arms.

    Slam is a level up compared to GA2 and other Schiit DACs (except maybe YA2?). Bass resolution especially (see the opening bass hits in Anita Baker's "Sweet Love" or the growling bass notes in George Michael's "Hard Day"). But I won't argue with anyone who calls LIM too aggressive, because it might be (I've yet to audition the Rockna stuff which is supposed be a bit more evenhanded here?) and Schiit DACs are already known to be on the aggressive side... GA2 is probably more evenhanded/normal with slam. But LIM's power is awe inspiring and comes when necessary to highlight aggressive mixes/musical passages more and doesn't seem like a negative... just a character trait. It's something I can get used to and live with I think.

    Still retains all the Yggdrasil's ability to differentiate recording techniques, formats, mic types, mic placement, etc., and there is still enough plankton to give one a very good sense of the recording space and recording circumstances. The HD8XX in turn is much better at picking up these differences, and especially where the mics are placed in the stage than the Focal Clear or Utopia I used during the LIM loaner (with regard to mic placement, Utopia is better than Clear in this area, but the HD800 series cannot be beat in this aspect, especially on Eddie Current gear... I am still using the ZDSE). And the LIM highlights these recording distinctions noticeably better than GA2.

    It must be said though that GA2 remains a less "showy" DAC, and might be a better fit for people looking to focus more on the whole, and less on individual parts. While LIM is still an evenhanded experience, it is still an Yggdrasil, and pushes certain musical qualities to the surface, making them hard to ignore. It is just that those qualities are alot better integrated into the whole than I'm used to experiencing with DACs that do that sort of thing. GA2 puts a little less emphasis on individual parts. I still think LIM is a better performing DAC, but it does come with those caveats.

    Like Marv said, it does have a tendency to sneak up on you and surprise every now and again, and that's because I think everything sounds so normal/evenhanded and "right", that it allows "special" moments to pop more, since it isn't always trying to impress. As a result, those moments feel more powerful, because they don't happen all the time and feel earned. This is especially rewarding with classical. Though I should be careful not to imply the DAC is ever boring... it's not, not even close... it's just more controlled than other Schiit DACs. More mature. Engagement is still TOTL, and what you'd expect from a statement DAC.

    With LIM it feels like nothing is being added or taken away. It is very well behaved among a sea of DACs that are troublemakers, and that's a huge relief. And if you can live with the more aggressive nature of the Schiit house sound, this is for people who want a "set it and forget it" DAC, with all the high-level performance that comes along with a statement product, that they don't have to worry too much about integrating with other revolving gear.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 18, 2022
  4. Wojciech Czupta

    Wojciech Czupta New

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    I need to confess something. I did some AB comparison Yggdrasil A2/USB5 to Dave/Mscaler combo. My conclusion was they were equal. I did this with MiniDSP SHD Studio (Dirac processor) between source and DAC. I was convinced at that time it doesn't limit my audio output. I revisited this today, comparing Yggdrasil LIM/UnisonUSB directly from source with my standard Yggdrasil LIM/EBU via SHD Studio. The improvement is beyond any doubt. My wife confirms. It is not quick AB as it requires changes in JRiver settings, but it is big enough to be absolutely sure the difference is there (sound sources are far more 3D and texture is richer). I don't know what it is - was I tired or deaf? in the meantime I changed the room treatment a lot, added Unison USB (actually never used it before, except for quick try), added MIL and LIM.

    Conclusion: we need to revisit all our opinions on regular basis or when some changes are made in the system. Some bottle necks may be removed. Pay attention when you read opinions from the past. The author may already be smarter and having other experience. I may need to revisit Dave again

    all the best
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2023
  5. Wojciech Czupta

    Wojciech Czupta New

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    obviously I am digging deeper, curious about the situation. I still need a solution to defeat huge 32Hz mode in my room (~5.5m room depth). (I have another mode at around 45-55 cycles, which is a deep instead, which I handle by a pair of open baffle subs placed in the back of the room - works miracles) So far conclusions: the SHD Studio, with all Dirac's, filters, eqs switched off is pretty transparent (it still does oversampling) - I think I hear the difference to pure Iggy USB, but I am not sure if I do. The degradation starts when I turn on Dirac. I thought I would buy Dirac Live, which is a PC software, so I would bypass SHD. Now I conclude this wouldn't do much. I played instead with Dirac curtains. I narrowed the Dirac DSP to 25-35 Hz bandwidth. It did help. I am still before final conclusions, but it looks like, if you run Dirac, keep it in the base frequencies if only possible.
     
  6. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    Is there anyone who would be willing to loan me there LIM? I had one before and sold it, did not like it with my Studio B. I now have a 6l6 pp amp and its a different ball game. Would love to hear it on my system.
    best,
    Josh
     
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  7. MrDave

    MrDave New

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    @purr1n If you got a chance at some point I'd be very interested to see where you feel the MMB2 and BF 2/64 would land on these graphs. I find visuals like these extremely helpful so thanks for all your work in all these threads!
     
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  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Updated with some minor changes to existing:
    upload_2023-12-23_14-25-25.png
    upload_2023-12-23_14-29-43.png
     
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  9. oceanrace

    oceanrace New

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    And I could not afree more. Perfect reflection on my well over 1000 hours on my LiM dac. Personally I cannot fathom how LiM could not be a perfect synergistic match for a Mjolnir 3 amp. I do aim to find out soon.
     
  10. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Let us know what you think.
     
  11. Justin S

    Justin S Friend

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    Yggdrasil MILF = MILB?
     
  12. joch

    joch Friend

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    Correct. It’s the MIB.
     
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  13. JK47

    JK47 Friend

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  14. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I would imagine it's apples to apple so yes given the Yggdrasil A2 scores.
     
  15. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    and comes in either the Tommy Lee Jones or the Will Smith version :oops:
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    Listen and you forget about everything else...
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    With magic box, decrease in plankton, increase in engagement and blackground. Slightly richer.
     
  17. oceanrace

    oceanrace New

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    I listen to my setup for around 18 hours a day every day. Well over a thousand hours on my LiM, not exact count but a lot. I am 64, been involved in this pursuit for over 20 years. Not even qualified to comment about anything on the level of most participants here, but this LiM is providing me the best SQ I have ever heard period. I absolutely love it. It is worth every penny of purchase price. Omar Akram piano compositions are just sublimely exquisite. Dynamic range, bass extension and clarity, instrumental separation, sound staging, attack / decay, treble clarity, mid-range, just everything perfect. The ability to just be happy with what I am hearing is priceless, regardless of measurement or comparison. The music just carries me away.

    Chain (current) is LiM, GSX Mini, Meze Elite. Using Moffat filter (OS) on LiM. Streaming Tidal and lossless flac from Redbook rips of CDs etc.
     
  18. internethandle

    internethandle Almost "Made"

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    I’ll write up something about GS vs. LIM with the Studio B in my chain in the next week or two since I should have time and it’s been about three weeks of GS being on so there’s no “it’s not warmed up yet!” nervosa. The short of it would be I love the plankton and micro/macro increase, still hear the greyground that I hated in A2 but the cooler tone and less boost in the lower mids/upper lows makes it less bothersome, and I have enough richness/thickness from other parts of the chain (SOtM decrapifier and Unison and 300B’s) that, for my sonic preferences, the loss in density that I had enjoyed in LIM but lose in GS has not made things sound too thinned out or attenuated even with 800. This is pretty recording-dependent, though, recordings that sounded passable or good on LIM can sound like ass on GS and vice-versa, and some of that is the “timbre” imparted by LIM trading blows with the extra plankton imparted by GS. I also hear why @Fenris finds GS to be a good match for Studio B. I think the emphasis down low from A2 might play poorly to the 300B’s viscosity (relative here, we are talking a EC amp) and make things sound congested and undefined. Would depend on the 300B though probably, I’m using those Linlai “Cossor” WE clones.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2023
  19. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Please sell your audio setup so you don't spend 75% of your life alone sitting in a chair listening to headphones.
     
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  20. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    @oceanrace is there a physical health reason such as mobility issues which are causing you to spend this much time on your setup? Otherwise I concur, I'd evaluate your level of use. Sitting for 18 hours a day doing anything is a recipe for problems, or perhaps a sign of one
     

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