I am losing my sanity.

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by yotacowboy, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    A little while ago I bought one of these things that shouldn't do anything. It's now been turned on in my main speaker system for a few days and when I unplug/plug it back in, I can hear a difference. Turned on, there's lower perceived noise floor, better instrument specificity, better front-to-back imaging, and wider soundstage. Not much change to tone or balance. I will not write a Srajan-style review. But there's more perceived difference with this Clones box on/off than adding/removing my iFi SPDIF Purifier.

    What gives? This box shouldn't do anything.
     
  2. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Maybe it is the internet...

     
  3. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    It's very easy to perceive a difference in something that you should not have been able to hear in the first place.

    But hey... weird stuff happens and there is, frankly, only one answer. Get somebody else to do the switching.

    It doesn't have to be hydrogen-audio-double-blind science: it just has to be at least one step away from knowing for sure whether you are listening to device on or off. Simple.

    and if you do find out that you were fooling yourself, never mind: it's not insane, it is normal!
     
  4. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    Who's madaboutaudio?

    Bamboo chopping boards, Soborthane Asborbers, Deoxit Cleaners, EMI/RFI shielding, cerameric fuses, starquad cables and power conditoning.
     
  5. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Confirmation/expectation bias? You need to test it blind over a statistically significant number of tests. Looks like massively egregious audiophoolery, BTW. The sciency name is particularly good.
     
  6. james444

    james444 Mad IEM modding wizard level 99

    Pyrate Flathead IEMW
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    You can't expect a box this cheap to really not do anything. If you want, I could sell you a high quality box that's guaranteed to not do anything. Of course it would be a little more expensive though, you get what you pay for... :)
     
  7. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    so, n=12? 40? 144? And, if I didn't expect it to work but did perceive a change, how does that work?

    blind A/B testing maybe this weekend. no more than a few tracks worth, tho. Get your undies in a bundle for non-scientician audiophoolery, I suppose?
     
  8. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Have you tried looking in the fridge? That's the first place I look when I lose something.
     
  9. Vastx

    Vastx Facebook Friend

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    Well... My opinion doesn't count much, after all I like bamboo chopboards a lot... But the only thing insane about this topic is imho having considered the purchase of the iFi SPDIF Purifier :D
     
  10. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    I lost my house keys once, and after two hours of stomping around the house looking for them and much swearing and cursing, I eventually found them... at the bottom of the kitchen bin, under a pile of potato peelings. Don't ask.
     
  11. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABX_test#Confidence
     
  12. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Ahh... the first rule of lost things.

    Another rule of life in general is that there is always a wizened mouldy carrot somewhere in the fridge. This helps in finding lost items.

    I have to admit that, in blind tests, I have never found the carrot.
     
  13. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    First one must play "hide the carrot".

    Ahem.
     
  14. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    This site is so full of signal these days!

    Anyhow. 5 tracks, first four cuts on Radiohead's new album (replayed daydreaming, cause i like that one), 24 bit 48kHz. Roon through a rPi into the rest of the rig. let's rustle some jimmys.

    GF switched the the Clones thingy off to on, or on to off, roughly mid way through each track (i told her to be really random). 4 out of 5 switches correctly identified. That's enough for me.

    confidence interval be damned. And I like my Yule-Simpson effect!

    Subjective impressions - it really took about 15 seconds to notice. Less complex music made things more difficult. Easier to hear the difference when there's more going on in the track, or when things start to become more dynamic. My guess is this has more to do with the fact that I'm running a relatively low-watt, high efficiency rig. But who knows. SBAF seems to know more than me.

    y'all can resume the SMH. enjoy the music!

    I think I'll keep this thing until I can sell it on a'gon to some other nutjob that buys stuff from machina dynamica.

    Cables matter except for when they don't! :cool:
     
  15. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Have you tried one in your system? out of an apple TV it made a decent difference. Less so out of a rPi with Hifiberry Digi+ hat. imho.
     
  16. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    Why buy an expensive Schumann resonance generating device when you can play it for free off youtube?


    The usb card seems interesting... oh wait it's USB neverosa all over gain.
    http://www.clonesaudio.com/accessories-1
     
  17. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    You're using USB for audio? also, I'm pretty sure my laptop speakers can't do 7.whatever Hz.
     
  18. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    It's still an extra component in your chain, so it could be doing 'something', just something that's not its actual advertised purpose. I've managed to pick up RFI using a usb DAC/amp before so...

    And as other people have suggested, a blind A/B trial should suffice. 30 samples is the general rule of thumb that seems to get passed around a lot in my field for initial investigations, so that should work for you.
     
  19. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I would like to tell you that you're experiencing "expectation" or "confirmation" bias. Indeed, you might be, but even that would be in addition to what I believe is actually going on ... and I expect that's just more nonsense in this case and, in reality, I'd be lying, and it's just that, yes, you're crackers.

    Your box is doing/has done two things:
    1. It has depleted your bank account to the tune of about $200.
    2. Pissing off submarine captains trying to get the cricket scores.
    But let's suspend reality for a moment*.

    IF your box does what it says it claims to do (by which I mean emits a 7.83 Hz field, not all the other audio-related claims, i.e. "You will get the more sharp**, more depth and more layering. Schumann waves also can be used for EMI/RFI protection and meditation.") ... it would seem to be a complete waste of time and money anyway. Such fields/resonances occur naturally, and on a much larger scale than anything you're getting out of a wall-wart powered CED***).

    --

    *There are just two small flaws with the idea of suspending reality, even momentarily. First, it's completely impossible. And, second, it's completely impossible. Now, I appreciate that, technically, that's just ONE small flaw, but I thought it was such a BIG ONE that it was worth mentioning twice.

    **I don't know about others here, but personally I always want the "more sharp". Unfortunately, in this case, the "more sharp" was the nature of the anally-located stinging sensation that would undoubtedly accompany the removal of $180 from my wallet in the tenuously likely scenario that I could hold my liquor to the point that I'd buy one of these for myself in the first place****.

    ***CED - "Cash Extraction Device" - primary purpose: move cash from your bank account to someone else's in a manner in which you can't be sure you've been bilked.

    ****There are rumors that I once purchased an Akiko Audio AC Tuning Stick. If that were true, it would have been a $130 purchase in the face of about $100,000 of other audio gear, so wasn't really standing in the way of any other upgrades. And, anyway, those responsible for said rumor have been given a soggy biscuit and not-necessarily-fresh milk and sent to bed without being allowed to watch "Starsky and Hutch".
     
  20. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I'm also losing my sanity the more I read this thread.
     

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