Comments on Profile Post by rlow

  1. rlow
    rlow
    but at the same time still supports the compressed-to-shit version for radio/streaming services. Guess this would require some kind a dual mastering within a single file. Maybe DDR “Dual Dynamic Range”. Probably a stupid concept, but we need some way out of the loudness wars.
    Sep 1, 2019
    hikergrl, gaspasser and fraggler like this.
  2. dubharmonic
    dubharmonic
    Sep 1, 2019
  3. Syzygy
    Syzygy
    I still blame the iPod revolution; once people primarily started listening through tiny earbuds, the industry reacted trying to make the music sound better through those.

    So even though it's called "loudness war", I think it's really just "mastered for the masses".
    Sep 1, 2019
  4. Merrick
    Merrick
    Wasn’t this basically what HDCD did? It could unfold to 20 bits when played on a compatible player but on a non-compatible player it played 16 bits.
    Sep 2, 2019
  5. Thad E Ginathom
    Thad E Ginathom
    @rlow, I think you are confusing some things. There is probably plenty of dynamic range available on the audio equipment that we've been using for the past few generations. Using it is another matter, "Compressed to shit" is not an equipment limitation, it is a producer/commercial decision.

    Listen to orchestral classical, where they /have/ to leave the dynamic range alone.
    Sep 2, 2019
  6. Azimuth
    Azimuth
    @Merrick HDCD was like that kind of. Almost no one used the peak extention option though during mastering.
    Sep 2, 2019
  7. rlow
    rlow
    What I’m referring to is the high compression “loud” mastering going on where labels and artists are basically trying to compete with each other on volume in order to get attention and try to standout on radio or streaming services.
    Sep 2, 2019
  8. rlow
    rlow
    This makes it impossible to use our systems to the fullest since there is really no dynamic range being utilized in modern popular music recordings. Even though the medium and our playback systems support huge dynamic range, the music doesn’t have it.
    Sep 2, 2019
  9. rlow
    rlow
    So come up with something where the file has a default compressed to crap version, but also another version within with a high dynamic range that can be accessed with the right trigger from the playback system. Sort of like a file that contains both a low rez MP3, but also a high res FLAC and your system can decide which one to read.
    Sep 2, 2019
  10. rlow
    rlow
    However I’m not taking about file compression in this case, I’m taking about dynamic range compression which happens mostly at the mixing/mastering stage.
    Sep 2, 2019
  11. Syzygy
    Syzygy
    That's like a camera RAW file with an embedded JPG "thumbnail".
    Sep 2, 2019
    rlow likes this.
  12. Thad E Ginathom
    Thad E Ginathom
    @rlow, "I’m taking about dynamic range compression which happens mostly at the mixing/mastering stage."

    Quite. It is an engineering decision, and nothing to do with formats. I don't know, but probably even 64-bit MP3 would support more dynamic range than music that has been loudness-war compressed has. We don't need any other format: we need good mastering.
    Sep 3, 2019
  13. rlow
    rlow
    @Thad E Ginathom no doubt. But here’s the thing, mastering engineers (many at least) know they are compressing DR excessively but have no choice due to competition. In many cases they and even the artist know the higher DR master sounds better, but they need it to be “loud” to compete. We need something where both sides can win.
    Sep 3, 2019
    Azimuth likes this.
  14. rlow
    rlow
    And by “format” I’m not referring to a file compression scheme, I mean something where a higher DR master is available along with the general use, low DR master.
    Sep 3, 2019
    Thad E Ginathom likes this.
  15. Thad E Ginathom
    Thad E Ginathom
    Oh right, @rlow, ok. But why don't we just persuade them to give up the useless low-dynamic-range mastering. Well, I suppose people have been trying, and it didn't work.

    But this loudness-war thing originated on the airways: does it actually serve any purpose today? Have the ignorant masses actually come to want their music like that?
    Sep 3, 2019
  16. Azimuth
    Azimuth
    @Thad E Ginathom I think it continues because of things like earbuds, noise, and portable devices limited power and overcoming ambient noise. I also think this is why people buy vinyl for the myth that vinyl sounds better or has more DR. I think it is great that YouTube is using reduced volume on encoding based on"perceived loudness" and low DR tracks have the volume reduced.
    Sep 3, 2019
    Thad E Ginathom and rlow like this.
  17. rlow
    rlow
    The Spotify playlist is the modern equivalent of the radio station - if my track isn’t as loud as the one before it, people will skip my track (or so the thinking goes)
    Sep 3, 2019
    Thad E Ginathom likes this.
  18. Thad E Ginathom
    Thad E Ginathom
    Oh, I see. I guess I'm completely out of touch with such things!
    Sep 3, 2019
  19. Thad E Ginathom
    Thad E Ginathom
    @rtaylor76, good point there. A well-mastered LP is likely to satisfy more than a compressed digital copy. Regardless of digital/analogue dogma.

    One advantage of being based in a former age is that most of my digital music looks (wave-form) and sounds pretty much like my analogue music.
    Sep 3, 2019
  20. Thad E Ginathom
    Thad E Ginathom
    I don't believe in "high-resolution" digital audio. But when remastering to proper standards comes as part of the deal, it is probably worth buying, regardless of the sample rate. Or belief in it,
    Sep 3, 2019
    rlow likes this.
  21. Azimuth
    Azimuth
    Sep 3, 2019
    Thad E Ginathom likes this.