AliExpress / eBay JL Hood 1969 Class A Amp

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by purr1n, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    IMPRESSIONS

    As promised, impressions (with the above red caps in place). I didn't listen to the stock amp too long, but I will comment on it a bit later. I will refer to this updated JL Hood 1969 amp as the JLH69.

    The greatest strength about the JLH69 is that it doesn't draw attention to itself. I've been able to listen to hours and hours, and feel just as engaged and immersed in the music as when I just turned the thing on. The tonal balance and timbre are superb. Very smooth with no solid state nasties. Slightly warm, an emphasis in the lower mids really, with just the right amount of body, but not excessively so. Again, this amp doesn't scream "see how wonderful I am in presenting an oversaturated color or artsy sepia-tone rendering". Nor does it scream "I'm a lean mean detailed machine". The presentation is very natural, not organic natural, but just normal natural. The timbre and harmonic textures are spot on. Voices and natural instruments are a joy to hear!

    Compared to the Hegel H2 and especially the Pioneer M-22, the JLH69 does not reproduce micro-detail as well. There's just that last bit of plankton missing, probably because of the big cap at the output. However, micro-dynamics are superb. The JLH69 convincingly renders small contrasts in volume with what it has available to work with. It's definitely an engaging listen. The Pioneer M-22's and JLH69's overall presentation are actually quite similar with the exception that the M-22 is a little more "magical" sounding than this amp; it does draw a bit more attention to itself. It would be interesting to see the distortion profiles.

    The Hegel H2 is definitely the attention getter, slightly bright in the treble (in a good way), robust explosive (when called for) articulate bass, crisper more incisive transients, and soundstage the size of an IMAX screen with you sitting in row 30. This amp and the M-22's soundstage is a closer and smaller than the H2's. But we still have row 12 seats. No slouch at all for folks who prefer a deeper soundstage, and pretty much as good as it gets with solid-state amps. (The H2 seems to be an exception to this).

    I do feel that the JLH69 pulls off the microdynamics trick a tiny bit better than the H2. And in terms of clarity, it meets the H2, which is no slouch in this department, but both are ultimately beaten by the M-22. The H2 still has that last bit of MOSFET mist. The JLH69 has a big electrolytic cap (bypassing with higher quality smaller caps can only do so much) in the way. The M-22 has caps in the signal path too, but they are small sizes. In all fairness, we are really comparing apples to oranges because the Hegel H2 should really be powering low-efficiency planar or traditional 58 piece crossover multi-way speakers. Still, I feel that providing a reference is useful.

    Here are some handy links for reference to the other amps mentioned:

    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/hegel-h2-power-amp-mini-review.3791/
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...er-amp-epic-japanese-gear-from-the-past.4177/

    Same Altec 511B horns with Altec compression drivers and 12" Beymas (in slightly undersized boxes) and source (tweaked Gungnir Multibit / Freya) was used in the M-22 evaluation.

    P.S. The JLH69 needs at least a few minutes warm up. 30 minutes to an hour is best. Probably something to do with bias stabilizing and chassis reaching optimum temperature given lack of parts in the design. Audyn Red 10uF cap bypass on the big electrolytic caps increased plankton and lifted veil slightly, improved dynamics and bass extension quite a bit, and resulted in less required warm up time. The amp when cold has a tonal balance akin to the Jotuenheim with some glare and grain, but only at about a third to that extent. Once fully warmed up, the amp's tonal signature shifts to the impressions above.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    ADDITIONAL NOTES AND THOUGHTS:
    1. Gain is lower than Hegel H2 or even M-22. This is good for anyone running 100db horn compression drivers and 95db woofers, especially from a tube preamp (Freya) that adds a decent amount of gain.
    2. The JLH69 is better than the Vincent SP-331 in every way, assuming you don't need the SP-331's power or aren't especially attached with the SP-331's tube bloom.
    3. This should go on the loaner program.
    4. Because of the low gain, I am going to wire up some adapters (or wait until @brencho returns mine) to test as a headphone amplifier.
    5. Measurements on the way. Very curious how this amp measures in terms of distortion.
     
  3. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Wow. That shouldn't sound any good. Or have we simply been misguided.
    The ZD Mini had also e-lytic in output and sounded fair.
    There are kits w/o chassis for 15..30 bucks for extra cheap bastards like myself.
    But then I have almost all the parts in my stash available.
    There is one curious power tranny extra, I wonder what it does. (edit: It's probably capacitance multiplier for psu)
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Most of the cost goes into heatsinking / chassis (material). A big electrolytic at the output isn't the end of the world. The smaller film bypass cap does help (but in all honesty, it only goes so far). The big cap is a tradeoff to allow a SE design with only three transistors in the signal path. Not the last word in resolution, slightly better clarity can be obtained, but there is some serious righteousness with the sound of this amp.
     
  5. MattRG

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    I am seriously interested in how it will sound as a headphone amp. My gut says it will be at least good and maybe better than a lot of solid state stuff out there that costs more.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I am not sure if I can totally recommend the JLH69 as a headphone amp because the gain is too high. The volume knob is not even at the 9 o'clock position (using Gungnir Multibit as the source) for HD800s and HD650s. There is a faint buzz (it's faint enough to be buried if there is background noise like a fan running) on the left channel, but I think this has to do with the 120V ACmains wiring running up to the switch on the left side near the left channel board. This actually might be fixable. Just need smarter routing of the wires. The gain can probably be reduced too by increasing feedback. Knowledgeable users can probably tweak the amp to work with headphones. I know most regular uses won't want to mess with stuff like rerouting wires or soldering resistors, so this is why I can't make a general recommendation.

    DSC_2065.JPG

    Compared to the Jotunheim, the JLH69 isn't quite as resolving, isn't as full in the bass, and has a slight veil (this veil is probably still less than that of the Valhalla 2). However the JLH69 has a more spacious and deeper stage, better microdynamics, and possesses none of the hard edge of the Jotunheim.

    Other than the barely audible buzz and excess gain, the JLH69 actually worked well with both HD650K and HD800V (modded) headphones. Obviously the HD800V had a bit more hardness and glare at top with certain recordings, but this is about as good as it gets in balancing treble smoothness with crisp transients.

    If I can get rid of the buzzing, I'd easily take the JLH69. Despite its failings in resolution and ultimate clarity, the music just speaks to me more. Other people may have different preferences. The amp does get super HOT though.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  7. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Nice comparison @Marvey Are they serious with the Krell logo? Wow.

    Inspired me to build a speaker output to 4pin adapter! Had some spare kimber tc cable and extra neutrik 4pin. Tried first on my testbench adcom.

    Came out really good, used cardas solder (flows so nice.)
     

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    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  8. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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  9. MattRG

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    Sounds a teensy bit like the Schiit Asgard 2, both in topology and character. Still, thanks for the write-up and the test. Good to know there's some good stuff out there that can still be had for a relatively low price. That has become something of a rarity in our hobby so it's always nice to give props to those items that are legit good values.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'd say more like the Magni 2 Uber, more but smoother with even better rendering of textures, timbres, and significantly better in microdynamics.

    Capacitor veil is kind of different from the MOSFET haze and warmth of the Asgard 2.
     
  11. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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    Hey @Marvey, JLH69 in the house here. I wanna bypass those output caps without blowing the amp up. I can't fully reverse engineer where you attached the other side of the 10uF Audyn's on your amp. It looks like one side is soldered to point E (see below). Where is the other end of the bypass cap tied in?

    IMG_1973-annotated.jpeg IMG_1971-annotated.jpeg
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Check continuity with a multimeter. E / F are continuous. Both of those black EPCOS caps are paralleled and should be as considered larger one cap the sum of their values.

    Points C / D are continuous. What I did was solder one end of the cap on E / F (also continuos), and screw the other end on either A or B (this is the one point I am not sure about). Either point A or B should be continuous with points C / D. If it's not A, then it should be B. The only reason I screwed down on the terminals is the cap I used was physically too large to bend the lead down to C / D.
     
  13. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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    Thanks dude. I'll continuity test it and report back.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    On the A or B, one of them sound be ground / common. So should be continuous with the one on the other side or on the black speaker post. What you want to hit is a point continuous with the red speaker post and points E / F.
     
  15. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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    Tied the cap from E/F to the screw terminal with the yellow wire (B) and all's well.

    Thanks for the help with this @Marvey
     
  16. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    [​IMG]

    This thing is too cheap and easy to not at least try out.
    I built mine from an eBay pcb and trash bin content.
    Output devices are Toshiba 5200 beef. Coupling caps show from above, high voltage electrolytics + one 15uF 1200V mkp totalling around 750uF. This means cut off to 300 ohms then is less than 1 Hz.
    I tried it for shit and giggles with simple 50V/3300uF lyte that other eBay kits use. With this the sound in higher octaves was significantly veiled and dynamics overall feel better with the frankenstein cap pack. High voltage lytes have less parasitics and are cheap enough to not worry about.

    Sound: holy freaking balls!!!
    I can't still believe it. I need to give it some time, but for now I can't put my finger on anything that's wrong with it. It feels like Stratus lite in sound, but no wetness. It is by far tonally most correct solid state I have tried by an AU. Stage is deep. Imaging precision and soundstaging in general is not as impressive as my EC (thank god), but not too far off. This amp in general sounds more like decent tubed machine than anything solid state.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
  17. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Nice job! Did you have any hum or gain issues? I am thinking about building my own as well.
     
  18. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    @fraggler Using ATH MSR7 I get some faint hum, nothing that distracts me (lets say mild wind blowing in from open window is more noisy). With HD800 I can't hear it.
    Gain is as per the original design. I'll leave it there as my dac is rather weak (1 Vrms) and eventually it will probably take place as speaker amp.

    Quick comparo between Jot and EC2A3:
    HD650M, HD800M, ATH MSR7, dac is my Soekris dam1021.
    Speaker project is lagging still, but it will get it's turn.

    After A-B comparo it's clear that the 69 does as well as EC2A3 only so far as the recordings are mediocre. With great recordings differences are rather stark. With crappy recordings things are inverted in favor of 69.
    It does get close in terms of tunefulness. This is the only solid state amp that I know that comes close to tubes in tonal gamut.
    Micro dynamics as Marvey said is it's strong suite, yet it gets easily spanked by the SET.
    Stage of the 69 is much less impressive with HD800 and suitable recording that has staging features in it.
    There is very slight hardness to the sound of the 69 amp, much less so than any other ss I have tried tho.
    Loss of effortlessness is nevertheless apparent next to EC2A3.
    It certainly glosses over some harmonic content in top octaves even after 'frankencap modpack'.

    Jot does cleaner transients. Jot's clarity is greater at the extremes of octaves. In mid bass to low treble things are quite even in clarity (this is very much thanks to cap upgrade in the 69).
    Piano and vocals sound more real and enjoyable with the 69 amp. This is partly due to more even tonality (or lack of issues) and partly of the tonal richness that most ss completely lack. Contrary to @Marvey I found that my 69 is more resolving than Jot, but my take on resolving ability includes the tunefulness.
    Imaging is more precise with Jot, images in its funky headstage are better defined, but we all know the staging of Jot is quite annoying.
    69 throws the sound images in front of you, but sort of into the mist, more blurred yet it takes no effort to account for them.
    Dynamics all around are better from the 69. Jot seems to bring micro stuff closer to loud events than the 69, subjectively is more compressed.
    The 69 does nothing to lift the veil of HD650, while the Jot does.

    From not so distant memory this amp sounds better than Laconic NBM and ZD Micro while aiming sort of similar tuning.
    I also prefer it to Jot, but will not say it's universally better.
    This is so easy amp to listen to, it lets me listen to HD800 and crappy recordings that I like for the drive but not for the tuning (edit: this is due to more relaxed and blurry staging vs my EC2A3 not because it is warmfag gooey mess).
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  19. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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    @Priidik thanks for those impressions of the JLH69 as headamp. Will have to give that a try with mine!

    Does anyone know the input impedance of this amp (specifically the Nobsound build thereof)? Starting to lay plans for a PLLXO between Saga and JLH69.
     
  20. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    SPICE sim of the schematic Marvey posted says 50kohm.
     

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