altec lansing model 14's. almost home.

im picking up some altec model 14's in couple of hours from a friend i usually do buiness with. he has refoamed the woofers and recapped the crossovers for me and finally finish for pick up.

i saw them couple weeks ago when i had to pick up some jbl 4648 bass bins and 4645 subwoofer and after listeninh to the little baby altecs i asked him if he can hold them and put them to the side for me and, can recap if i gave some money up front.

altec model 14 is probably considered one of best makes when comes to horns and crossover design right next to model 19's, altec a7-500 and, large format multicell horns. some actually like the mantaray horns bit more than the much bigger brother sectoral horns.

i loved altec speakers ever since i heard and bought pair of modified altec 1204b speakers and eventually using the large 511b/808-8b's horns on some large jbl 4648 bass bins.. that's why i went ahead and bought the model 14's.

i was looking at other midfield monitors like the yamaha ns1000, yamaha ns10's and, jbl 4412's but, decided on the altec model 14's. super smooth air response and beautiful effortless clean resolving midrange. it surprisenly had good amount of clean punch in the bass too for those little guys.

for now im gonna use my crown xti 4002 to drive them when i bring them home till i fix up my place. i have other crown amps as well but, gonna hook it up to the xti since i use that a lot for mains. i'll be augmenting the altec model 14's with a large 18" jbl 4645 subwoofer(original with the 3 ports and box tuning of 25hz, with loaded jbl 2245h) which basically pro/theater version of the more expensive jbl b460 that used prettier enclosure and came with external bx36 crosssover box for home use. but, of course ill be activly running the 4645 sub with seperate amp and maybe tiny bit of peq(but, really not needed).

i paid 550 total for speakers, refoam and recap. friend didn't even charge for recapping or refoaming. they are in excellent condition. usually they go for 600-800 on the market but, cause i knew my friend for couple of years as of now i usually get a deal worked out which is very nice of him.

when i get them home and setup with little listening i can let people know how i feel with them. just really excited to be picking up another pair of altecs! anyhoo......

 

i got them home safely yesterday but, i had do some errands when i got back and also had to rearrange and put some stuff in storage. will give impressions and take pics later.

 

I have a pair playing right now downstairs in the Rec Room. Very satisfying sound and a lovely spatial image -- I think because of the mantaray horns. Currently running them with a vintage tube amp, a Fisher 800C.

I think you'll enjoy them!

 

i been listening to them for couple days now. mine been recapped and refoamed.

all i can say is these things probably favorite speakers so far and pretty much end game for me. i already have pair of larger altecs with 511b/808b as well and love them as well.

the mataray horns are very special. the mataray/902-8a combo is insanely ultra smooth and tons of air response. these things defiantly easily reach 20khz. i was actually surprised on how smooth they were since i always favored the bit larger 802-8b's and 808-8b's. the little 902-8a/mataray horn combo has special place in my heart.

i have then setup currently on my crown xls 2502 with 4th order hp filter @50hz

have it with hp filter cause i run subs with them. use pair of jbl 4648 and 1 jbl 4645 subwoofer...

using crown xti 4002 driving the subs...

ch 1 - 2 jbl 4648's with 8th order lp linkwitz filter @50hz, 8th order linkwitz hp filter @30hz

ch 2 - jbl 4645( jbl 2245h) with 8th order linkwitz lp filter @30hz, no hp filter, peq 6db+ @20hz low shelf filter eq..

would upload pic but, using my phone now. need be home on my laptop since i can't just upload directly from my phone on this site. love them though. they one of probably most under rated of the altecs.

 

here is older bout week old crappy photo....

been cleaned up since and more listening. yea don't look like much or any type of eye candy but, the sound of them is very good.

i actually restuffed the model 14's over the weekend and it did clean up lot of things even more and allowed the bass to dig deeper. the little 12'' woofers are more impressive than people give credit for. they reach 40hz no prob so i actually changed my hp filter on them and changed up the lp filter when my pair of 4648's should kick in...

the little mataray horns really don't seem like horns. they have wonderful dispersion but, gives no acoustical sound to itself off. also on correction above the drivers are 902-8b on the model 14's. the woofers are in house altec made. people have rumors online that never die saying that the woofers were made by rca as oem woofers for altec to use but really the model 14 woofers are an improved and modified version of the older model 15 woofers. it uses a much larger and more powerful motor and a special stiffer dampener on the dustcaps. the model 14 is designed to handle much more power than the model 15 and was used for smaller professional applications but, the 902-8b compression drivers were used typically in later years on larger pa and professional applications strapped on 511b horns before altec decided to shut down for good.

there was tons of fr tests done at altec heritage showing that the 902-8b can easily extend to 20khz flat very smoothly. only weak spot of the 902 due to it being a smaller driver/motor it has bit of loss below 1khz even though the 902 is rated for down to 500hz but, in some applications i believe i think i saw another measurement showing reasonable and good response down to 500hz very well but, is not suggested unless it's used for applications where higher power handling is not needed cause of the much lighter diaphragms naturally used for the 902. the 908 is basically revised 808-8b and are usually recommended for 500hz 1st order crossover points...


anyhoo, enough babbling...i really like the 14's and very happy with them. i plan on finishing more altec projects this past summer and see how they turn out. might do shoot out with my larger altecs vs baby altecs... i know lot people don't find the model 14's small and them weighing bout 90lbs each i can see how some people think they are large but, to me, being around 180lb+ speakers and subs these model 14's seem kinda mediumish to me but, if anyone finds a pair in good working order and don't mind refoaming and recapping if have to, i say go ahead and give them a grab. they are really sweet and smooth sounding speakers and are one pair that will fit in medium to smallish sized rooms just fine with room to spare cause they are not that big....

 

Indeed, size is relative and it all depends on the space you have available. I have both a small and large listening room and the 14s do a very nice job filling the large room. I find them to be very forgiving with regards to exact listening position -- really they sound great regardless of where you are in the room.

I would like to have a pair of the 19s someday.

 

i noticed that with them as well. that's why i was impressed by the mantaray horns they exibit. the mantarays has such very well high frequency dispersion that it helps keeping a stronger center image in variable seating arrangment.


i have pair of large 511b horns as well(bigger brother of the 811b in the model 19's) and find them having wondeful dispersion and dynamic charaters but,hf response with them is usually lost and drops of quicker off axis and has more beaming effect so they require more careful positioning.

i think altec reallu did great risking all on their last leg creating and designing the mantarays but, of course already being too late in their career, the company fell anyways. GPA is only thing left considered true altec since gpa has all original tools, materials and blue prints of altec lansing creations. gpa still builds true altec drivers from scratch.

 

Yes, Great Plains Audio is an amazing resource. The fellow that I bought my Altec 14s from, had the woofer redone by them and they look great and sound great.

He also replaced the caps in the crossover and bypassed the protection circuit. I can't give any comparison, before and after, but these things are quite nice to listen to.

 

i always hear great things bout them. i actually plan on calling them after i sell some of my gear off cause i might upgrade the diaphrams in my 808-8b drivers. it uses an alinco magnet but, can still have any of the 9xx series diaphrams installed.. still deciding. i love the 902 drivers in my altec model 14 but, while it having wonderful extension reaching above 20khz, it uses a very light surround which might not do well below 1000hz which is where i like the 511b horns at. i liked loading the 511b at their respective 500hz crossover and the 808-8b did that wonderfully so might go with 908 which is a direct slightly improved replacement for the 808.. still deciding...

the protection circuit on mine has been bypassed as well but, i did hear them before and after recapped. they sounded great before recap but, even though been few days i was away from them i noticed they were brighter when he played them before me picking them up but, i never played with protection circuit when i saw them so don't know if that was involve with sound changes or not so can't say. don't know though. might just been me. i also think they have powerful bass for there size and can extend pretty low as well for their size but, still use subs with them( 3 jbl 4648, 1 jbl 4648 with loaded ev dl15w drivers, and 1 original jbl 4645)

i think the protection circuit is what made the 14's since it was actually a protection circuit done right and lot of people thought so too(that's why some even used them for pro uses in studios and even sound live reinforcement). the woofer is special to the 14's as well since it uses the same type of cast frame like the bigger 16'' woofers. the 14's are great speakers. i been using them as my mains now but, i still have my bigger altec horns. just plan on doing a project them this summer since i have cabs in my closet or want to try to build something similar to the a7. i have a pair of 921-8a 16'' woofers as well but, they need a recone so, i have to call gpa to see how much it'll cost for a recone kit but, if they don't charge much i might send it to them to do it so,while they're at it, they'll recharge the magnets as well. so i have everything for an a7 build so far. just need time and money to go forth with it. i plan on actively running the larger altecs but, if not i have spare jbl 3160 crossover boxes which are actually really darn good passive crossovers and i used it before on my altecs.

i want to save up money so one day i can try get hold of altecs true large format horns like the 803/5b or 1003/5b horns with loaded 288/290's...those things are absolutely fantastic i think. but, the 14's are really great speakers. probably favorite speaker of their size. i loved my technics sb7000 i use to have which were bout same size but, had bit extra midrange hump to them since they were made to mimick jbl's famous 4311 control monitors i believe but, to be honest the technics sb7000 had a cleaner sound to some jbl control monitors i heard before and a cleaner air response. i loved them but, i got rid of them just cause of space issues and acquiring altecs in the picture. the 14's response are just perfect i think but, can be very source and amp picky for some reason. give it good clean source with good clean power and they'll sound great. the crown i use helps bring out the deeper bass grunt on them i think.

 

i decided to take the 902-8b's out my model 14's for observation and to see how they perform on pair of 511b's....while the ferrite on the 902-8b diapham sits on look same size as the alinco it is slightly different in where bolts are and while can bolt the 902/ferrite to 511b it can be little squeezing and jiggling around. i noticed the diaphragm of the 902-8b looks exactly like the 802-8g's...only difference i know of is the older 8xx series of course is all alinco. i decided to just strap on the 902-8b with it's current ferrite motor and use it on the 511b's with the jbl 3160 crossover boxes....noticed not much too difference from the 808-8b's but slight more damped midrange a bit but, could just be in my head....so since all altec diaphragms are field replaceable i took the 902-8b's out and installed them in the 808-8b alinco bodies. bolted them on(it was much easier take in mind) and once fired up i noticed actually good improvement in the low-end and top-end. might be better throat angling and less reflections and IM distortion in the throat chamber thanks to exact cut outs of the 808 bodies giving better transitions between driver and throat.

doing this though i found how impressive the 902-8b diaphragms can be and probably first aluminum diaphragm i ever liked involving the top-end and air response. the 808-8b uses aluminum as well but, much thicker and a heavier pascilete(can't spell it correctly) surround for greater power and lower-end excursion but, of course sacrifices high end extension(but, i always found them have decent high-end extension on their own and roll-off was liked for certain music)...

 

well i figured it out. the cut out diameters of the alnico magnet of the 802/808 is different to the 902/908 ferrite motor/body. this can explain the difference i heard of last night comparing back and forth between the 902 diaphragm of alnico and on ferrite motors...i know alnico still has pretty interesting following but, i never cared or dug too much into magnet types personally. never knew the 800 series or altec were alnico to begin with when i purchased my first large altec set from my friend. i just recently dabbed into it due to simple diaphragm swapping.

i still can't find anything on the 902-8b vs. later 802-8g's...but, so far from what it looks like. the 802-8g and 902-8b uses the same very light aluminum alloy diaphragm, just differences lies in the magnet type used between the flux density and cut out diameters. they sound very good on the 511b horns and very smooth without sounding strident or bright. i'm probably gonna take my 511b off for sale here and cl cause defiantly motivated to build an a7 like build now. just need to buy new gpa 902 phrams in near future and install them in the ferrite motor cause i have the 808 diaphragms installed them for now since i been using the 902 phram in the alnico 808 bodies.

still waiting on throat adapters too on my part cause really soon i want to get the big EV HR9040 CD horns bolted up and use them. later on in near future besides a7 build i still want to get pair of large format altec drivers and large multiceller horns like the 1003 one day. still though love the model 14's and mantaray design a lot and still find that design very hi-fi for home use in the avg room size and will perform just as well or better than some of larger altec home models since the mantarays are bit better at directivity of high frequencies and require less attention to detail when it comes to speaker positioning and room acoustic challenges.

 

They are very forgiving of positioning. I find I can sit nearly anywhere in the room and enjoy the image thrown up by these things. I have them set up in the largest room in my house (rec room), but I don't think it would be hard to make them work in the living room.

 

Yup. That's benefit of the mantaray it uses. It will probably do great in the living room fine.

I read more and seems the 35480 that was in the model 14/902 diaphragm was intended for later model 802-8g, 604 duplex, 802-8d's but, were used as stock diaphragms for the 902-8b and as replacement for the older "lite" diaphragm that older 802-8g's used. The 35480 uses bit extra mass to the dome to improve midrange and low-end linearity while maintaining respectable hf extension. Supposedly the 35480 diaphragm was best altec small format driver created and are most desirable for their midrange properties when mated with an alnico body like the 802/808 series...

Gpa still makes the 902 drivers but, are to the older "lite" specs and they use 9 slits in the phase plug on brand new built drivers compared to older original altec 12 slit phase plug which some believe improves hf response but, limits the lower end below 1khz bit more. Don't know since never had a gpa made driver for testing. Always had all original altec lansing parts. Still have more reading to do.

 

i decided to give up on my larger altecs. i traded up my altec 511b/808-8b to a friend of mine for couple pair of carver amps i been actually desiring ever since he brought them over that day we first met. i also i gave him my 16'' 921-8a woofers for free since one only worked and other was slightly blown from my idiocy and it would buzz during bass notes. he plans on reconing the 921's into 416's from gpa which is great and glad he's happy with them...

still though my main and favorite speaker is the model 14's. only thing i learn recently messing with them is basically they're like a quasi 2-way in a way or akward one depend how put it since the horn/902-8b uses a 2nd order network while the 12'' bass driver is ran full-range... to me the speakers always sound super coherent and nice and only improved more after restuffing them inside and fixing the chicken mesh stuff where i stapled it over the port inside... so far, these still my overall favorite speaker and is one pair that is an absolute keeper. even my friend who traded me still is amazed by them on their coherency and clean sound and been to this day looking for a pair lol.

only i'm gonna do in near future, is get the 12'' drivers recone just for aesthetic reasons and build some cloth covers for them. i also will one day plan to try them active and see how they sound running a 1.5khz 4th order network(that's what the mantaray is considered on the 14's. 1.5khz horn). but, i can live with these probably for rest of my life. i think they're that nice. i consider them perfect. even works wonderful as near-field monitors i think.

only thing big i still have around is the EV hr9040 horns, about 4 jbl 4648 bass bins and the 1 retuned jbl 4645 with a loaded 2245h loaded in still have around too.

 

I've always wanted to try out the larger altecs, but in terms of space available, the 14s are quite big enough so I decided to stop there. ;-)

I've heard of people building alternate cross-overs for these, but I never had the gumption to fiddle with what I've got,

 

yea the 14's are pretty nice size speakers i think too. they get heavier though once stuffed... they weigh bout 90lbs each but, restuffing them brought them up about good 8-10lbs more... probably heaviest speakers i ever lifted of there size. guess cause of the nice thick real walnut wood cabs.. but, they are absolutely gorgeous speakers i think and they sound as nice as they look which i think is a rarity nowadays.

i think you did real good on the 14's as your first altecs. probably on of the best consumer based modeled altecs i ever had experience with and i heard 19's, and valancia 846's.. but, of course depending on person and so forth. i think the 511b is smallest sectoral horn i go if i stuck with the slightly larger altec horns. with good mounting and good crossover point and with a good woofer it can sound fantastic i think but, the 14's has one of the smoothest presentations i feel . the larger altecs can work in mediumish and smaller rooms too but, needs good acoustic treatment to deal with standing waves and all reflection points i feel. i feel altec choose right when they made the 902 and mantaray. i want to try the larger mantarays as well but, they're made for the 1.4'' drivers and the multi-cells like the 803/1003 are out of the question due to price and availability.

yea, reason i probably just go active. not bad price and me having whole bunch of amps and wires and connectors sitting around it be cheaper route too. don't know if i get any benefit from active running since i already been running 200wpc+ amps on the 14's and since it's only the 902 that has a network on it and bass driver full range but, it'll be fun to play with and try though i think.

 

@Rex Aeterna , when you refer to 'stuffing', do you mean you're packing the interior with polyfill?
If so, is the idea to damp the cabinet's internal reflections?

 

yea. i used fiberglass for the walls of the sides and top and bottom with thick fiberglass. even put thick layer of fibergllas in the craves area between the woofer and horn area to prevent standing wave interactions from woofer to horn. then i just use tiny bit of fiberfill stuffing to put around the woofer in the cab but, didn't overstuff cause have to allow the woofer to breath and be able to excurt when needed. i can take a pic later on if it helps. i don't have best phone in the world but, can give an idea if liked...i always restuff cabs. you're dealing with 30+ year old speakers and the wool/fiberglass inside lost all properties and is decaying in there so, first thing i do is rip old stuff out and put new stuffing in.

 

Thanks, Rex. I think I get what you're saying. I hadn't thought to inspect the condition of the damping materials. Out of sight out of mind is most likely the reason.

Yes a photo would be nice. Is this just home insulation that you're using, e.g., do you just get it at Home Depot or similar?

 

yea. the fiberfill/polyfill stuffing i get comes from local department store as well. wal-mart has 10-15lb boxes of really nice loose polyfill/fiberfill stuffing. home depot carries the rest like fiberglass,wool,foam,ect...and all that fun stuff. i do apologize for not taking pic yet. i know i made post bout little over couple days ago. i just been so occupied with tiny stuff around the house, my g/f,trying to figure what's wrong with this stupid active crossover and testing some ev bass drivers i got hold of that i forgot was in my closet besides other stuff i completely forgot bout haha....will defiantly try to get my lazy ass motivated today defiantly to take a couple pics of inside one of the 14's boxes to give a decent reasonable example of some sort. i haven't forgot bout you.