Amp+Dac advise for HD 800??

I stand by my decision of an Oppo HA-1. For $1200 it has a fully balanced amplifier with incredible specs, super low distortion, 111 dB SNR, excellent power per channel, and really really low crosstalk (< -120dB in balanced mode). In addition it comes with a sabre DAC with >115 dB of resolution, up to 384 kHz 32bit format support, USB and optical inputs. It also re-clocks USB input signals to reduce jitter.

Lastly it comes with a metric fuckton of extra features. Pre-amp outputs, bluetooth audio streaming, bluetooth smartphone app remote, beautiful 4 inch LCD display, full body aluminum body and dedicated IR remote, and a DC motor controlled volume nob.

You can easily have the Oppo be at the center of your digital music, have it drive your headphones, and serve as a pre-amp to your main speaker setup. I just upgraded my HD 800s to a balanced XLR-4 cable and the Oppo delivers even deeper bass extension at louder volumes, and smoother treble with a wider soundstage.

In my humble opinion, there is nothing as good or better at that price point and if you want anything better you will have to spend double or triple the amount of money to get something that is maybe a 5% improvement.

 

Thanks for your input!
When I got the HD 800, oppo HA-1 was one of my top choices. Anybody else have any input on this??

 

I recall you made sumilar comments on changstar and were basically downvoted into oblivion. The reason for that is that your post sounds like a copy and paste of oppo's promotional materials.

What other well known amps and dacs have you owned and compared to your oppo with hd800's? What is it about the oppo that sounds particularly good to you compared to these other products?

 

A lot of DAC/Amp combos measure extremely well. I mean look at the Yulong DA8 thread here. It has amazing measurments, cost about 1400 USD, but sounds like shit compared to other DACs and amps mentioned in Changstar/SBAF. Measurments can only explain some details/faults about a DAC or AMP, but never tell you the whole picture.

 

That got down voted because I just said I liked that amp without giving a reason. Yet people were doing the exact same with Schiit gear and other popular gear and weren't being challenged to justify their opinions.

I haven't done a direct A/B comparison to other equipment but have heard other big name amps at the SF audio show two years ago. I guess my main reasons come from an objectivist view point where the Oppo out specs the Ragnarok, and is on par with the Gunringer (the old TOTL DAC) if not marginally better. An amplifier is an amplifier, and those with virtually the same specs should sound the same. That is why those measurements were invented.

Subjectively the sound of the Oppo is powerful, dynamic and very clean. I could actually tell there was an improvement going from single ended to balanced. For lower volumes it doesn't make as much of a difference but cranking the volume would sometimes result in a bass drop off, meaning there was not enough juice to power the cans. Going balanced allowed even more power per channel and the bass and dynamics improved noticeably. Also the imaging was better, instruments in odd placements had just as much clarity and definition as those taking center stage.

 

While I agree partially with this, it is a little unsettling because you SHOULD be able to measure objective differences and pinpoint to the ones that cause poor performance. If stuff in the signal path specs well and measures well, then it could be a poorly filtered/regulated power supply or poor ground plain separation. These are circuits after all, not some fairy unicorn potion. We (this planet) have invested an incredible amount of brain power to understand them. Measurable differences will be able to pinpoint faults of the gear if the correct measurements are done.

 

Ok, from the DA8 thread.

Me: DA8 has a tendency to produce fake detail, that is not really there. This would maybe come out on a square wave measurement?

Marv: Probably not. DACs tend to measure close to perfect.

I am not the one to tell you this, ask people who do these measurements (ultrabike, atomicbob, marv etc)
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There was an in-depth discussion on Changstar where Jason and Mike form Schiit mentioned that measurements can only tell you so much. Their gear fine tuning is done by ears and listening.

''it is a little unsettling because you SHOULD be able to measure objective differences and pinpoint to the ones that cause poor performance. ''

You Should does not mean that you Can.

 

Personally, I like the Oppo's amp section fed via its XLR inputs. I heard it once paired with a Theta DSPro Basic III briefly and the pairing sounded good. (Aside: I wonder how it would sound with the Gungnir Multibit. Hmmmmm.) The unit has solid overall aesthetics and its plethora of features (balanced output, bluetooth, preamp outs, remote, great display, etc.). If someone can get one for around ~$900 used, I don't think it's a bad deal just for amp use alone if you want the amenities and looks.

But the HA-1's built in DAC section is just too bright, harsh, and digital. It reminds me a lot of a Mytek 192-DSD. (I didn't mean the comparison in a positive way. But if you think about it, the Mytek is an expensive DAC so in that sense saying the HA-1's DAC is similar means its a huge value in that regard.) For me, that detracts pretty heavily from the value.

And there are better values to be had for standalone amps. The Cavalli Liquid Carbon is definitely better for the HD800. For Sennheiser dynamics, the Valhalla 2 is certainly better. The Audio-GD NFB1-AMP has similar features and is cheaper. The Schiit Mjolnir 2 is almost certainly better. For an all-in-one, you can pick up a used Pulse unit on the cheap. Lots of great suggestions above too.

(Another Aside: I think that Oppo and Light Harmonic should get together to make an all-in-one Sabre-based unit done right. LH can provide the sound [the Pulse X Infinity is amazeballs], Oppo Digital can provide the aesthetics, build quality, customer service, brand recognition, and distribution. I'd buy one.)

 

I too find this quite frustrating. It seems that there are a limited set of variables and one should easily be able to measure. The thing is, aside from a few things like frequency response (which is still suspect) we don't have solid measurements to describe what we hear, which is why we rely so much on subjective things. I think we're getting better, but most of the things one measures with a DAC are pretty difficult to hear subjectively.

1000x this. Wow, would I love that. An Oppo HA-1 with the digital designed by LH would be so easy to recommend to everyone as a great amp/DAC combo. An Oppo HA-2 with the Geek Out v2 internals is been my dream portable DAC/amp. They are both in California and within a couple hours of each other. Let's make this happen.

 

My Gungnir Multibit arrived today and I hooked it up to my old amp. Wow, what a difference. Can't wait to hear it with the Black Widow. Thanks for the feedback.

 

Hooked it up how? Balanced or single ended?? Would like to hear more Gungnir Multibit feedback!!

 

Single ended. I have an amp made for speakers that isn't great for headphones, and has only single-ended inputs. The DAC I had was no slouch, but only has single ended outputs.

Until I got the Gungnir Multibit, I couldn't really understand what people meant when they describe a DAC as if it lifted a veil. Now that I've heard that on the Gungnir Multibit, I can't think of a better way to describe it. There's also a lot more punch from the Gungnir Multibit, and it's much easier to focus on a particular instrument even when a song gets busy. As sounds are moved around in the soundstage, the effect is more engaging. Keep in mind, this is with all of 3 hours of burn in.

I'm looking forward to trying it out in a fully balanced setup, but from the people here that have a Black Widow (single-ended only) I don't count that as a requirement to enjoy my gear. Mine is ordered but could show up anytime in the next few months. Hard to be patient.

 

What's a 'Vali 2"?

 

Probably a typo.
Orrr, purrin is secretly testing one!

 

So if you could pick only one config, would it be (Gungnir Multibit + Vali) or (Bifrost Multibit + Valhalla2) ?

 

Sure I am guilty of spec shopping to some degree. I read as many reviews of the amp prior to my purchase, as well as examining specs. After all if a manufacturer claims a certain spec, and if they are reputable, they typically produce units that are within a certain tolerance of this and it serves as a good ballpark estimate of how a unit will perform.

Spec wise, the Oppo HA-1 has a larger SNR of 111 (granted it is A-weighted) versus Rag's SNR of 103 (unweighted) with a gain of 1. Typically amps drop SNR when you increase the gain so this is probably the best they can report. Also the HA-1 has crosstalk of 120 dB versus Rag's 80 dB. I don't see an IM distortion measurement for the HA-1 but the TH distortion is a few dB better, granted it is measured at 1kHz versus what Schiit claims is THD between 20 to 20k.

So yes it isn't always apples to apples comparison but they do appear close enough to make a comparison.

I would love to A/B test it but there are no shops within a reasonable proximity of me to make this possible. Plus I don't want to fork over several hundred just to demo a Schiit product for 15 days.