Amphions, Harbeths, Seas Metal Cones, Active Systems

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Psalmanazar, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
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    DCX2496 works great (what I've used in the past) if you DO NOT use the A to D (analog inputs) but instead rely on only the built in DACs, that is the AES for digital input.

    Ideally, it's done with a 4 gang pot on the outputs for volume assuming two-way (L high, L low, R high, R low). Digital attenuation on the AES signal into the DCX2496 also works, but there will be loss in bits.

    The DCX2496 can be substituted with a MiniDSP, but there is something to be said with controls on a front panel. The 2496 hardware UI is excellent. Fast learning curve.

    A comprehensive solution would be a MiniDSP 4x10 which comes complete with a volume knob. I believe the attenuation done after digital processing - no loss of bits.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  2. taisserroots

    taisserroots Friend

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    Probably just experiment with your own crossover filters and whatnot on a minidsp as opposed to havig an ad/da box
     
  3. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    If you not from the "CLASS-D(EAD)" school of thought, what about some plate amplifiers with build-in DSP?
    Hypex Fusionamps, Dante DSP amps, MiniDSP amps, Dayton, ect.
     
  4. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    @murphythecat On the analog side, there're some options too. First Watt has two crossovers but not available for DIY (B4 & B5) and will release more models soon, presumably available for DIY.

    Marchand has a variety of active crossovers, some with op-amps (not discrete like the First Watt ones, prices start at $700) and some with tubes (but these start at $2K)...a tube active crossover, how cool is that? :p
    https://www.marchandelec.com/electronic-crossovers.html
    https://www.marchandelec.com/price-list.html

    There's plenty of vintage stuff to choose from too, specially from Japan (Luxman, Sony, Pioneer, Accuphase, etc).
     
  5. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Has anybody heard a JBL 705P or 708P setup?
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It's actually easier to experiment with slopes, time delay, phase, EQ, etc. with the DCX2496. No computer required, all settings can be made from the front panel. Don't underestimate hardware boxes with good UI. Don't need to power up a PC, log in, connect USB, fire up software, deal with mouse. Buttons and dials work faster sometimes. I've used the DCX2496 as a tool to set targets for passive crossovers. It's the ultimate experimenters' tool.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    A simple active crossover may not be ideal with the Seas metal cones. "Crossover" (active or passive) is actually a misnomer. "Crossover" almost always means crossover and EQ / frequency response shaping. The Seas metal domes do best a with a steep notch filter at 8kHz and shallow notch at the mids to allow the flexibility to use less steep crossover slopes. A 12db/octave filter will provide the best integration between the Seas small woofer and the tweeter, particularly when soft dome tweeters are used. A 48db/octave filter will not require notch filters and will offer a more precise sound at the expense poorer blending between the highs and lows. It's tradeoffs. Finally, none of these active box solutions will provide the massive baffle step compensation which will be sorely needed for these small woofers,

    Now thinking aloud, if one really wanted to use the Marchand or FW B4 boxes, a possibility might be to use two woofers in a 2.5 way crossover to provide for the baffle step. One woofer would have an LPF at 500Hz, the other around 1800Hz*, the tweeter handoff point.

    These Seas drivers are a bitch to work with (by far the worst of any), but well worth the reward. Yes, I played with all this shit before. This isn't audio theory-crafting from me.

    *Exact frequency up you depending on how hard you want to push the tweeter. Lower usually sounds better until distortion and the tweeter blows up after extended use.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    DBX Driverack is superior if using the analog inputs / AD-DA. Behringer DCX2496 flat out sucks when using it this way. Quality concerns with the DCX2496 are legit. They do seem to have improved their QC over time. My older Behringer boxes have a few inputs or outputs which are noisy or broken. The good thing is that there are plenty and the re-routing capabilities are enormous.

    The downside to the DBX Driverack is that the cheaper more affordable models do not have a digital input. The DCX2496 has AES input and it sounds surprisingly decent when used this way.
     
  9. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Yeah brah 705 is still a modern JBL that goes too low and has compression driver treble but slightly better built than the 305. They're less lofi than the 305 but not what I would use for critical listening or listening for pleasure. The 305 are dope cheapo drum monitors (200 on sale per pair!) but I wouldn't pay 2k per pair for boxy JBLs. I imagine the 705/708 would be great for making music that will be primarily played over a PA system though. Maybe the 306 is cooler than the 305 for a little bit more money as the 308 is a hot messy turd. 708 definitely won't come unscrewed like the 308 does. I’d still take Adams a7x, Neumann kh120, and KRK v series over them but they all have a sound too
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  10. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    I checked into a local guitar center to check out an ultra cheap used pair of focal CMS 50. They sucked (more to come on that later) so I briefly listened to the other typical speakers there and was reminded of Amphions by....

    The Yamaha HS7 !!!!!!!

    They both have some sort of slowly rolled off bass extension that lets you hear the upper bass without any real punch and are way too thin with some midrange detail. The Amphions I’ve heard (6.5” towers, Ones, and Twos) have a more etched but more laid back (in terms of attack and transients treble). The Yamaha HS7 do the similar “hear but not feel” everything in a thin as Kate Moss, dry as a nun’s cunt presentation better and much more normally than the $$$$ Amphions memes. Amphions are beatiful only if you hate punch and cymbals. Now the HS8 is actually good but let’s not go there. This is about crap

    Non-flexers, memers, and deaf people who want a thin and dry, heard but not felt, presentation with little PRaT should take note of these. Unfortunately 95% of the dudes who like Amphions, drier STAX, and thinner Hifiman are flexers who hate any visceral connection to their background music. Something you can find in most music stores will never be acceptable to them due to being so commonplace.

    These would’ve saved @murphythecat some money prior to his conversion to phat bass.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  11. restrav3

    restrav3 Likes Audio-GD

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    Didn't you say goodbye and that you are gonna play with your real friends?
     
  12. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Doesn’t mean I can’t roll in from time to time. Go back to fecal fishing with Audio-gd.
     
  13. restrav3

    restrav3 Likes Audio-GD

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