Are those stock tubes on lyr2/mjolnir2 really unsatisfied?

I mean, how much better when changing some "better" tubes?

 

Thanks, buddy, yo, I think I should better call Saul.

 

Yes, the stock tubes are fairly weak sounding. Honestly, I'd take $25 off the price and have it sent with no tubes. That being said, this is a tremendous amp paired with just a decent set of NOS tubes.

 

Do you guys have any good recommendations for tubes other than the stock ones that are at a decent price?

 

For the lyr 2 or mjo2? My experience is that the lyr is actually more revealing that the mjo2 of tube changes. Meaning the mjo2 will still show the character of the tubes but the lyr2 will show it more. There are LOTS of great tubes out there. What is your budget?

 

I own the amperex 6922 orange globes for my valhalla 2 and they're highly recommended here. They add a bit of a touch of warmth and bass to the V2.

 

I honestly don't know what a good budget for tubes is, i just don't want to pay something like $300 on tubes. I'm using the lyr 2 btw. A good question might be best bang for buck tubes.

 

I have two sets of budget tubes for my Lyr1, and I like both better than stock but the changes are quite subtle

Matsushita Nationals: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsushita-national-pcc88-7dj8/ I found these to be slightly warmer, with slightly less intense highs, and a wider soundstage

6N23P E88CC 6922 6DJ8 Voskhod Rocket unsure of year: These are really bright and detailed. Got them for about $25 shipped from Ukraine, would recommend if you're just looking to get your feet wet and try something different. Visually they also glow a lot too

Both of these make the Lyr1 less warm (edit: temperature) seemingly, so there's that too

 

I also have a pair of voskhod rockets, I think 1972. I agree that they're brighter and a bit more detailed than the stock tubes, which may be good for the ly2 but not good for the valhalla 2.

 

I'm interested in this as well. I don't have a Schiit amp yet but I hope to upgrade to a Mojo2 eventually. I generally like solid state amp sound so I'll probably just get the LISST tubes, but I'm interested in these NOS tubes you mention. Can you give some examples? I don't know about budget, but are there any good NOS tubes for $100/pair or less?

 

Philips miniwatt SQ gold pin are very good depending on the year. Also 74-75 Reflectors Silver Shield are impressive with the mjo 2.

 

Yes, they're "unsatisfied." They want more foreplay before you stick it in.

I don't think they are unsatisfactory, at least in brief listening sessions under meet/show conditions. There may be better options out there, but tube rolling is an endless money pit. Been there, done that, not doing it again.

 

Re: schiit tube amps
The noticeable differences will be greater on the val 2 since it is all tubes, all the time;
The noticeable differences will be less on the lyr2/mjo2, compared to the val2, since they are (well done) hybrids;
The noticeable differences will be less on the mjo2 than the lyr2, because of the markedly different topology after the gain stage.

They engineered the mjo2 (all their amps, really) to sound f'ing fantastic with the lowly stock tubes. It is really a question of taste. I like wasa bread and tubes scare the shit out of me, so I am not adventurous enough to venture into a world where matched pairs actually makes a difference.

As for "satisfaction," burns is on the money. ALWAYS err on the side of too much foreplay.

 

What are some examples of bright tubes if I wanted to counter Audeze treble roll off?

 

I found the Voskhod Rockets to be quite bright (see my post a few up) and they are really, really cheap on eBay. I got my pair from a Ukraine seller for less than $30 shipped.

Please keep in mind I only have 3 pairs of tubes to do comparisons and am in no way an expert, but others definitely find these bright as well

 

On my Lyr 2, I also found the Canadian 6BZ7 tube lacking. LISST is a worthy upgrade if you want to avoid all of the tube rolling. Tube rolling can get addictive and expensive. In fact, I bought nearly $700 of tubes before I bought my Lyr 2. Most of them are pretty good, but of the ones I picked I actually preferred the current production ones to the NOS tubes even the Telefunkens. I would only recommend the Telefunkens to someone with a highly analytical headphone because it is very warm (highs are really too recessed for my HE-500 and HD600), and they are slow (less detailed). They do have a nice non-fatiguing nature about them. Interestingly enough, I particularly enjoyed the Electro Harmonix 6922 gold pins the most so far, and they only cost $60 per pair for these current production tubes. A real bargain, and I think they sound quite a bit better than LISST to me. Someone asked about a bright recommendation, and based on my testing so far I would go with the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC. They run about $90 per pair for these current production tubes. I'll be posting my tube impressions in the tube thread in the "Other Gear" section after I finish my evaluation of the last tube I currently bought if anyone is interested. Also, keep in mind if you are new to tube rolling as I was that it takes nearly 20-30 minutes before the tube's sound becomes consistent (read: no longer changes as it warms up).

 

Thank you for your insight, wanted to ask if you can post something here when you finish that post so that I can go and check it out.

 

@Darkkp
Sure, I will post a link here to the other thread as soon as I'm finished evaluating the last tube.

@lvince95
To my knowledge, there are only a few current production tubes available for the Lyr 2 that I could find. Those are the Electro Harmonix 6922, JJ 6922, and the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC. I don't believe I found any Tesla or Jan Philips tubes that were current production (only NOS). Also, there are some others out there that as near as I can tell are just JJs. For instance, Telefunken came out with their Black Diamond series E88CC current production, but it states right in their data sheet that it was made "in partnership with JJ Tubes". In addition, they are "cryogenically treated." So, I just assumed they were a cryogenically treated JJ 6922. That might be a bad assumption, but they were a lot more expensive (read: not a good value compared to some others I had already found and liked). E88CC is just the European designation for a 6922 by the way. There are also major tube retailers essentially rebranding tubes that have probably only been cryogenically treated, so you might want to watch out for those too because they are much more expensive and probably do not sound any different than the base tube. As you might have gathered, I'm not entirely convinced cryogenically treating tubes impart any beneficial sound characteristics or durability as some of them claim. In fact, cryogenically treating an old NOS tube could put stresses on them that they certainly weren't designed for back in the 50s, 60s, or 70s; consequently, I haven't tested any cryogenically treated tubes at this time. If you are truly on a budget, you could also consider the non-gold pin versions of some of the current production tubes. The biggest difference is probably the gold plating on the pins, and they might be made to a slightly better tolerance (an assumption on my part). Additional savings can be obtained by not getting a matched and balanced set of tubes. Some say this is unnecessary... But it usually only adds about $5 per tube for the retailer to find a tube with sections in each tube that are nearly the same and to find another tube that is nearly the same as the other. Typically they are looking at the transconductance and/or possibly the gain of the sections and tubes. If you can swing it, I would probably opt for the gold pins because they will require less pin cleaning and probably provide a better electrical connection. Also, I would opt for them being matched and balanced by a reputable tube dealer. A lot of tubes are probably bought on ebay, but that is going to be crap shoot as to what you might get. Send me a PM, if you would like to know who I used as my tube supplier. Anyway, of the current production tubes I tested, the ones that were warm (although slightly) were the JJ 6922 gold pin (about $30 per pair) and the Electro Harmonix 6922 gold pin (about $60 per pair). I did like the Electro Harmonix ones better because they were just slightly faster (read: had more details). As a side note, some people confuse details versus brightness. So, when I say it had more details, I mean only in what you can hear of your music. Both tubes were essentially the same in regards to warmth/brightness. If you were looking for anything that had extreme warmth, only the Telefunken NOS tubes provided that based on my testing thus far. They are quite expensive though, and they are very slow (lots of detail loss).