Audeze LCD2C Measurements and Impressions

Yeah I sent support an e-mail just to get confirmation myself, here is the response:

"Thanks for reaching out. We no longer carry black microsuede ear pads, and all of our leather free products now use a new style of egg-protein based material that is more similar to leather than the old microsuede pads were. The LCD-2C already comes standard with that."

So no more vegan pads and it seems like they are specifically just trying to retain a pleather type of feel/sound rather than offer alternatives. Hopefully another company will make something to fill the gap.

 

I fixed my LCD-2Cs tonight, took a bit of fiddling with the EQ in Foobar, but this is my current work in progress



Since I was using the EQ anyways, figure I might as well boost that Subbass

 

I like to see that. It was really hard getting an idea on how the vegan pads used to sound that was grounded in objectivity. The way the 30hz peaks before falling off looks like a broken seal, not necessarily a material characteristic.

Is there any difference between the lcd2c pleather and LCD2 leather?

 

We'll see. I contacted them with my info.

 

You missed my update post 2 back from this one.

Audeze got back to me and said: "Thanks for reaching out. We no longer carry black microsuede ear pads, and all of our leather free products now use a new style of egg-protein based material that is more similar to leather than the old microsuede pads were. The LCD-2C already comes standard with that."

 

Oof, guess we're hosed. I do have interest in the full on leather pads as I'm not the biggest fan of the stock feel.

 

Impressions as requested by @Vansen, et al.

Spent the day listening to LCD2c in direct comparison to HD650, HEK, and HD800sd. Amps were a solid state (0.1 Ω) and the ZDS set to low (~3 Ω). Source was a Benchmark DAC3 HGC, which is here as part of a slow-moving DAC shootout -- more on the multitude of DACs another time.

Full disclosure: My listening preferences are open, airy, detailed but easy sound because I listen mainly to jazz and classical.

Physical / non-acoustic impressions

Build quality is really decent. Better than HFM and Sennheiser, I even like it better than Elear. Aesthetic is very masculine --- I think a lot of guys will like these. Matches the EC amps nicely.

Cable is decent. I hate braided cables, I liked this cable OK. A bit plasticy, but flexible. Could be longer. I like 3-meter cables, this was 2ish.

Ergonomics. Initially they felt fine, the pads seal well, but in the end I found it had too much clamping pressure for my delicate noggin. Odd, because I have a smaller head (I wear HD800 on smallest setting!) The problem was that over time the pads pressed too hard against my temporomandibular joint causing discomfort. Because the pads are perfectly circular, I couldn't rotate to get them into a more comfortable resting place. With HEK and HD650, by contrast, I can change where the earpads land, and both have a much softer clamping force.


Sound impressions

Just to disclose my state of mind going into this, I wanted to like these. They impressed me out of the box, the measurements looked great, and the price was right. I was hoping I could sell my HEKs and make back ~$1000 on the exchange. But that was not to be.

Frequency response - First thing you notice is how good the FR really is. Just lovely. Piano timbre sounded more accurate on LCD2c than on my HEK, where the treble bump fucks it; better than the HD800sdr, which I find shouty even with the mod. One caveat: Harp (since I know you guys listen to harp)... something out of sync with the very high frequency overtones there. [EDIT: On reflection, I see this is due to an FR scoop, it applies to other string instruments too.]

Detail - The detail level is decent, a bit down from the HEK and HE-6 (4 screw) -- but not so bad that I couldn't live with it. I like the quality of the detail in LCD2c more than in HD800sdr, which I find artificially enhanced in the treble and uneven across the rest of frequency spectrum. LCD2c was also much more detailed than my HD650 -- though I strongly suspect I might have a dud HD650 since I cannot extract acceptable detail from it with any amp.

Stage - LCD2c has weird stage. It’s very flat and internal to the head, popping out left and right at times. It comes and goes. If you listen to highly edited / hard-panned / electronic / pop music, this may be fine. If you listen to jazz and classical where the room is part of the atmosphere, it's whacky.


Now the for the bitchy bit...

Where the HEK (my current favorite headphone) falls short by being overly soft and polite, even to the point of ruining pop and electronic music -- the LCD2c did better. It's fast, powerful, and in your face... BUT... in a way that I found too ugly for my taste. There was too much "compression" on the LCD2c for me. This creates great bass, but ... whereas the bass on the HEK sounds big by virtue of the driver size, the bass on the LCD2c sounds big because it's pressurizing my eardrums. This makes all delta-function artifacts in the sound feel pulsatile and unpleasant, even at higher frequencies. I really disliked this quality. I would be tempted to mod this by venting the headphone, but of course that would kill the bass. However.... I can imagine some people might like this punch.

The pressurization also made the headphone sound more like a closed-back can. It lacked air and couldn't breathe. Even @porkfriedpork, who has totally different tastes than me, felt the same way: He said narrow, closed-in and agreed it sounded more towards a closed-back.

The pressurization also had the effect of hashing passages that were really complex and loud. This happened repeatedly in big orchestral music. I was shocked that the distortion measurements were as good as Marv had measured, because it sure sounded messy to me. This was confirmed on all amps, including the 0.1-Ω solid state that's normally totally dry.

My Conclusions

After several hours, I was done with LCD2c. Really good for the price. I like it better than any Senn, but not a keeper for me. If I wanted to find a more dynamic and immediate headphone than HEK, I would move to the HE-6, which delivers all that detail and presence in a much better sounding way; without the compression, hash, and closed-in quality. Of course, good luck finding one these days. Thus, LCD2c is still a great current-production headphone, but mine is off to a new home.

 

How many mW of power should my amp have to reproduce sub-bass fully on the 70 ohms LCD2 Classic? I'm planning to get one of these:
FiiO Q1 Mark II (75 mw at 32 ohms)
FiiO A3 (270 mW at 32 ohms)
Fiio A5 (800 mw at 32 ohms)

Calculations say the Q1 is enough for normal listening levels, but will it be enough for sub-bass peaks?

 

All 3 can drive the LCD2c to listening levels. For casual listening it is fine, but I suspect any will have good synergy.

I listened to the Q1 and LCD2c, the bass boost is quite addicting and it doesn't roll off. It is actually a good value for the decent bass boost and battery as a power supply, but the LCD2c can certainly scale with better gear.

 

Sorry, I meant the Q1 Mark II and not the original Q1. The Mark II has significantly lower power output.

With bass boost enabled, does the Q1 Mark II still drive the LCD2 Classic at 90-100 dB SPL without clipping? Does EDM sound as good as a subwoofer or closed back?

 

Guys, a little follow-up on Hands post with leather vs vegan comparo:

1] I can confirm LCD2C sound more neutral with vegans, the roller-coaster after 1K is indeed gone. Almost equally important is the gentle db increase towards subbass though. It gives LCD2C natural fullness more akin to my PMx2s with velours. I do not hear any negative impact on subjective bass depth so far.

2] I also agree with @Hands that upper mids are a bit too pronounced now. It does not make LCD2C sound aggressive or sharp but rather, somewhat similarly to HD650, a bit brighten up or greyish.

3] Indeed PMx2 and HD650 seem more cohesive and calm in general. LCD2C are just a little bit different in its nature (regardless of earpads), a bit more focused on speed and immediacy... somewhat more snappy as Tyll calls it. Still, LCD2C sounds compact and gentle enough to actually make me want to listen to them along with PMx2 and HD650, to put them in the same family of headphones.

4] As expected, LCD2C loose the trademark Audeze intimacy (club feeling?) with vegans as they now sound more open. This is a typical leather vs velour behavior, nothing new.

Buy those vegan earpads ASAP before they get completely unavailable unless you want keep that intimacy and more fun sound signature intact. Here is the potential to make them sound more mature, balanced, versatile... if you wish so.


To help further, few practical observations:

1] I can confirm the dark brown version looks great with LCD2C so either that or the dark grey version will do. No need to worry about the colour of earpads. (I owned both colour variants.)

2] Vegan pads compress more naturally than leathers on your head. That means improved comfort (less pressure from the sides) and less stress on headband/gimbals (I heard some squealing few times after I put or adjusted the phones on my head with the stock pads).

3] It seems the stock leather earpads now have supportive plastic rings glued to the earpads, with the foam side of those rings heading towards earcups. (Those rings were just inserted inside earpads in the past, without any glueing.)

• I recommend removing the leathers incl. those rings from LCD2C which will expose almost undegraded layer of glue directly on LCD2C earcups. Then you can simply take out plastic rings from the inside of vegan earpads and attach them alone to the glue layer on LCD2C (foam side must again head towards earcups!). At the end, you do not even need to glue vegan pads to LCD2Cs since they will hold very well in their place once you place LCD2C on your head.
• Why to do the above procedure? Not only you will cause ZERO damage to both stock leathers and replacement vegan earpads... but you will also keep the original layer of glue on LCD2C intact. That way you should be able to return LCD2Cs or vegan earpads (incl. adhesive rings) with no issue in case you dont like them.

 

I don't recall the vegan pads coming with plastic rings. Did you mean the rings from the LCD2C protein pads, and repurpose them for the vegans?

 

@joch The last pair I had did come with rings inside that helped keep their shape.

 

Thanks. I'll have to dig up my spare to check, but I really don't recall any.

What do they say that goes first? the memory, or the hearing?

 

I put ZMF eikon micro-suede pads on my LCD-2C, which has proven to be interesting. By the way, they fit and are not too small at all when attached with adhesive in the same way as the original pads are attached. They are only maybe <1cm smaller in diameter than the original 2C pads. They are a bit less thick though, which really hasn't proven to be an issue for me but may be for some.

Let me preface this by saying that the only other headphones that I've had extensive listening time with is the HD6XX and PM-3. The Eikon pads move you substantially in the direction of those two headphones in terms of tonal balance.

The overall character of the LCD-2C shifted to a much more even tonality without the same kind of upper mid/treble roll-off I see in my Oppo PM-3. The at times overbearing darkness of the 2C is pretty much gone. There still remains some residual peakiness in the treble, but it is much more tolerable given that it seems to stick out less from the rest of the upper mids/treble. The dip at 5khz is still there but maybe less noticeable? Overall, I think that dip had the effect of making vocals sound less intimate than on something like the 6XX and this has been improved with the Eikon pads but not quite to the level of the 6XX in that department.

Bass differences with the eikon pads are honestly kind of minor at first listen and after a few days I still don't feel like it change in a way that is too dramatic. There is perhaps a small hit in sub-bass. The extension, amount, "speed" of the bass still seem better than the 6XX still by quite a large margin.

Soundstage is a little less precise and more diffuse. This does remove some of the 3 bubble sound it had before though.

The 2C kind of does seem kind of like a 6XX with "proper bass" now. However, one thing that I will say is that the Eikon pad swap ended up highlighting the most mediocre part of this driver (upper-mids/treble) which is the part that Audeze perhaps intentionally muted. So you kind of trade the illusion of the driver being better than it is for a more even tonality imo. I'm personally ok with that.

 

Any other comparisons to the modded HD650 apart from Luckbad's? How about the LCD-2 pre fazor?

I regretted selling them a few years ago and am wondering if it's worth revisiting Audeze again, even though I'm very happy with the HD650M.

May as well throw the HE-500 in there, as I'm very familiar with it.

EDIT: I managed to find a graph of my old LCD2.2, measured in July 2013. I don't know if it was a "unicorn" pair but it sounded pretty damn great to my ears. I only sold it to fund a LCD-3 PF purchase, which was by far my biggest disappointment in this hobby.

 

Although they are different in form factor, I would be curious how the lcd2cs compare against the new campfire cascade as an allrounder.

 

Did someone on this thread compare these with the elear yet? curious since they are about the same price. I know it may be a stupid question since most already like the elex more than the elear but I was more curious about the elear against lcd2c due to their more similar midrange dips.

 

I remember it's already discussed in earlier pages this thread.

Shortly, a narrow and sudden dip of elear is NOT similar with wider and gradual one of lcd2c (tbh i don't want call this "dip"). As a rsult, mid-high sonic perceptions are very different between these cans.

Owned elear and have lcd2c now. I can't directly compare, but, to my preferences, definitely would take lcd2c over elear even with current prices ($500 or less for elear, $800 for lcd2c), if pad rolling is NOT considered.

 

I actually already heard the elear and found the highs fine but was more bothered by the blurry bass and weird feel to the sound when things pass by that upper mids dip. I guess I should take a blind plunge and get some lcd2cs. I do want a forgiving headphone as long as it doesn't feel like it has any holes/hollowness in response.

The blurry bass could have been caused by an amp with high output impedance though. Not sure because I wasn't familiar with the amp. Some big Cayin amp.