Audio Science Review Review

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Aug 30, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    This Friday. I will be visiting Houston this weekend though.

    I have a lot of nifty ideas. the APx555 is not amazing only for its specs, but also for its automation capabilities and API where some fancy stuff can be done with .NET. Expect me to start out simple though. It takes time for me to bake ideas into something tangible. There's also a lot to learn.

    I can't remember who, but someone mentioned that Amir is like driving a Formula 1 car at 30mph. I can confirm that this is very much true after my playing around with the APx525.

    They can lurk. The SBAF culture experiment was run for several years until we got it right. I love the new members coming in right now. We don't get professional turds and know it all blowhards like @k.e. anymore. It's really been a long while since. It's not about moar people. It's never been this. It's always been about better quality people. I've been extremely happy lately. Moar <> quality. It's simply the nature of the universe.

    Think about it: do we really want moar people who's entire audio experience consists of a Topping L30 and D30 with shitty distorted headphones run of out them?
     
    • Like Like x 17
    • Epic Epic x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  2. Woland

    Woland Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    a friendly land
    Being new to SBAF is different to being new to audio. Accessibility and welcome also matters for people with a lot of experience, or a lot to contribute, and improved accessibility shouldn't be seen as a call for mass user migration from Reddit & Head-Fi.
     
  3. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2019
    Likes Received:
    1,617
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Layla
    The problem is people nowadays are too narcissistic, especially if they got some experience or some intelligence like the type of people you're suggesting.

    I think it's difficult or impossible to be welcoming to those without losing our code and then turning this place to a less populated Head-Fi.
    And it's not difficult to know the code of this forum, if those people can't figure it out then we don't need those lazy or dumb people.
     
  4. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,218
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Palo Alto
    Home Page:
  5. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    From this statement can we assume no other audio analyzer produces worthwhile results? All previous data published from other analyzers should be discounted?

    I'm almost tempted to acquire an APx555 and perform dual measurements on all future components to demonstrate the flawed concept of analyzer name snobbery.
     
    • Like Like x 16
    • Epic Epic x 8
    • List
  6. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My measurement daddy can beat up your measurement daddy!
     
  7. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    778
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Atomic Bob, perpetuating equipment snobbery of any kind was not my intention at all. What I was really trying to say is that there are a lot of objective-focused ASR members that may start reading these forums once more measurements are published. The APx555 is kind of a red herring in this argument except that it will enable @purr1n to obtain these measurements more quickly.

    It also will take away the perceived aura of “professional measuring equipment” prestige from ASR for people that are impressed by that type of snobbery. That mostly applies to less experienced and more casual audio enthusiasts.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • List
  8. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    Wait, a phone book? Is that something like Kindle?

    seriously, though, I'm on the wrong side of 60 and I remember them well. I also recall from 40 years back, someone asking me "How did you get my number?" Answer: phone book.
    And even if you are not, internet anonymity is only skin-deep. Unless you NwAvGuy, and he probably more effort into the anonymity than the audio.

    It is a matter of respect. GO did not want to post under his name. Should have been respected. Amir has no respect, no manners, and, generally, don't got no brains anyhow.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Epic Epic x 1
    • List
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Unfortunately that is the reality in today's world. Measurement n00b (Amir) buys the best you can buy: voila. Sudden expert and authority. Heck, at least I can make YouTube videos showing exactly how easy (literally braindead) it is to do the same types of measurements. Heck, the second we boot up the AP-555 software, with two clicks (one is bring up SINAD box, the other is play), we get the first THD/SINAD screen that we see on ASR's "reviews". And oh, you want to know why Amir measurements are at 2Vrms SE and 4Vrms BAL despite these high voltages making absolutely no sense with respect to headphones (they will kill most headphones over time if not outright)? It's because these values are embedded in the dropdowns.

    Under normal circumstances, the APx525 would be all that I would need to get the speed and features. However, I feel the APx555 will be needed to bring the narrative back to normal (normal as in: 87db SINAD, that's pretty good). It's stupid that I will need a super clean signal generator and analyzer that can do 128db SINAD to make this narrative believable, but sadly it's true. It's not the people who have already made up their mind. It's the people who do not know, who are on the fence. I spoke to a person at my last place of work. He was interested in an Arcam DAC. He looked up the ASR "review" with all sorts of "confusing graphs" which in the end concluded that this DAC was more or less "shit". This of course gave him pause. It's these people who can use an alternative voice the most.

    Also, I got a buddy (or two) who will be starting an audio company. It will be good to have something to back him up if case ASR does one of those hack jobs on his company. His history as an audio terrorist / mafioso (reverse sponsorship), and favoring his benefactors (Topping/SMSL) or brands carried by his company Madrona Digital (Harmon/JBL) is well established. Amir likes attention. I'd say to all audio gear manufacturers: ignore him at your own peril once he gets his sights on you.

    Seriously, that dude is audio Taliban, audio Wahabbi.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
  10. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    A Cell
    In the past I lurked in the other forum and here. It did not take me long to find out where the grass is greener.
    Anybody who has read @atomicbob‘s test reports is able to figure out that the time in order to measure the gear is only one thing. You need to do this with due diligence and put together a test report. One reason for some of Amir’s borked measurements surely is that he lacks in diligence. I would rather that people who jump ship just because they think there is a new Sugar Daddy around who has even more and bigger candy stay where they are and leave our pastures to us. It is the basic understanding of what is important in audio and what is not that is the difference between them and us.

    PS this thread has turned more into “MQA what they say about it at ASR and what we think about what they say”
     
  11. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Likes Received:
    2,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NW Pennsylvania
    Personally, I think this discussion has more than run its course. I'd guess that most of the the last 10-15 pgs could probably be moved to the Audio Science Review Review thread.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I moved some of it here.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Respectfully Disagree Respectfully Disagree x 1
    • List
  13. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,375
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Charlottesville
    Speaking of Amir hatchet jobs, check out this abomination. We can compare it to @cskippy ’s review and measurements here. We can compare it to SoundStage’s review and measurements. Etc. Amir’s is the outlier. He slams the cans because of distortion at 114 dBspl. SoundStage, meanwhile: “The measured total harmonic distortion (THD) of the ATH-ADX5000s is low at any sane listening level.”
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  14. GoldenOne

    GoldenOne Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    England
    Friend of mine sent a small present to accompany the analyzer :)

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 11
    • Epic Epic x 11
    • List
  15. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    778
    Trophy Points:
    93
    This is the “fetal pose” Pink Panther. I’m sure this is how Amir feels these days whenever anyone brings up MQA over at ASR.
     
  16. Marvey

    Marvey Super Friend

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2021
    Likes Received:
    1,712
    Trophy Points:
    93
    That's not a reasonable level. The small monitors like the JBL LSR305 won't even get close to that.
     
  17. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    778
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Sigh. After I asked a legit question about the value proposition of the D90SE compared to the D30 Pro of the Topping rep, I am getting told by the peanut gallery to move on as the device is not for me. I especially love the use of the term "obsession" over the price of the unit when this is my first post on the subject. And the whole passive-aggressive "this is a great question, but" and "no disrespect meant".

    Just when I thought that there may be a hope for some critical insight there. I really don't know why I bother, but I cannot just stand by idly when there is an elephant in the room like that.

    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...review-balanced-dac.24235/page-14#post-818536

    EDIT: If you question the pricing of the device, it is now being implied that if it is too expensive for you, then just move on and get a cheaper device. I don't understand why it has to get personal where the person asking the question is attacked for being too cheap in a sense. Can't they just say: "We make different DACs for different segments of the market. Admittedly. they sound the same, but some people just want to have a Ferrari even though they can't drive it over 100Km/H on the highway."
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  18. Woland

    Woland Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    a friendly land
    You seem to be a voice of reason on the forum, and that isn't so well received. What keeps you going back? Just curious.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Because it's not science or objective. It's Topping shill site.

    From an objective point of view, there's no difference with the D90SE and the entry level Topping, Geshelli, and Schiit DACs. Spending anything more is objectively a waste of money.

    Actually, the D90SE is much worse when it comes to SINAD in the higher frequencies unless you use filter 7. The distortion increasing as we go up in frequency seems to have been mostly conveniently dismissed.

    Hey, Topping did manage to top the charts for 1kHz SINAD. That's still a good accomplishment.

    P.S. Just read the post and replies. Haha, the crazier ones tried to gaslight you. Unbelievable! I'm actually convinced Topping has several sock puppet accounts on ASR. The Chinese are really good at these tactics, e.g. Amazon reviews.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  20. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    Wait! Wasn't the premise of ASR to "teach the great unwashed" there is no need for expensive audio components and the least expensive that achieves 1 KHz distortion and SINAD below audibility is all that is necessary?

    *edit* changed DACs to audio components
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page