Audioquest Nighthawk Headphones

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by The Alchemist, Dec 14, 2015.

  1. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    @Ice-man Interestingly while I've always loved hd650, my head-time has been never spent that much for 650. It's mostly used as a reference point when evaluate new hps..

    Largely two reasons:
    1) My skull, face-skin, and head inherently hate 650's ergonomics. Except its light weight, everything else (cushion, pad material, clamping, inner space allowed for ears, unstable seal) was far from my expected level. Clamping could be loosened (I already tried), but at the expense of losing seal and weight distribution..
    2) I am very sensitive to lose clean sub-bass (20-50hz). Strangely I prefer headphones with cleaner and better bass-extension even when listen to bass-light or bass-shy musics.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  2. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    After playing and testing all my favorite recordings for hours and hours, I temporarily settled eq parameters: -5db low shelf at 800hz Q=0.9; -8db peak at 7khz Q=2.5
    Perhaps still sub-optimal to some extent, but I don't bother any more. It's just time for purely having fun with this amazing can.

    Even apart from eq, I found NH had a great synergy with ADI2. NH indeed is a bit amp-picky (not dac-picky though), because of its very low impedance (25ohm) and super high efficiency. This simply means that most of tubes cannot work well with NH. Sadly my beloved taboo 4 was not an exception. What is worse, NH (eqed) had somewhat aggressive and sibilant expression around mid-trebles. Jotenheim was not fully satisfactory in this aspect. Magni3 may work but I didn't test yet. ADI2's clean, bright (but not aggressive), zero-noisy, and a bit dry hp out worked nearly perfectly with NH.

    Anyway, to make NH really sing with its true potential, careful amp matching is a must IMO. Good SS with resolving but generous characteristics will be a safer choice. High-end SS-sounding tubes (generally $$$) may work as well.

    That said, NH's resolving ability and fast transience could successfully pull out what ADI2 (as a dac) was able to do, arguably better than any other dynamic cans under $1k. Extremely blacker background, fantastic plankton, very effortless expressions for busy/complicated passages. All of these come with planar-deep+clean sub bass (but lcd2c hits harder) and reasonable tonality (kiss 6xx still wins in better coherence and timber).

    PS. I almost forgot how much I paid for my 2nd NH. $300 new. Truly a steal.

    PS2. Skylar Gray (chief designer of NH, currently left AQ) must have used more common target curve, instead of too uncommon approach - He PURPOSELY skipped to compensate against pinnae and concha resonance. EQ is needed mostly to address that problem (lifting high midrange and low treble).
     
  3. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Love the current eq setting for NH (the same as the above post). But was wondering why such simple eq worked this well.

    I found a potentially interesting explanation when compared FRs between NH and Clear(Focal).

    To do so, I used IF's measurements, and overlapped them with very crude way using free software.

    eqed ah vs clear.jpg

    So EQ seems to lower the entire bass (20-1000hz) to reasonable level, and reduce sibilance around 7k. EQed AH may be still bassier by a few db than Clear, but overall tonality is very pleasing not only to my ears, but also graph-wise.

    I haven't heard Clear, but owned Elear for a while and auditioned Utopia a number of times, so assume Clear is a perfected Focal (not technically but tonally)
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  4. simm

    simm New

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    Hello SBAF, this is my first post (but a long time lurker) starting of with a review of the NightHawk.

    Background
    Currently the NightHawk is very cheap and i bought it for 230€ unboxed. I'm fairly new to the HighEnd headphone game, so my only comparison headphones - that i own - are HD600 and K7XX. The K7XX i hate: it's a similar but worse version of the HD600 imo. Keep in mind the NightHawk was the cheapest buy for me (thats how hard the price dropped).

    I bought the HD600 3 years ago based on reviews here and on InnerFideliy. I fell in love and my brain is very accustomed to the HD600. Enjoying beautiful and resolving mids daily. But sometimes i feel the bass should be deeper. So here they are: the bassy NightHawks. I have them for 2 days now.

    My chain: Musical Fidelity V90-DAC -> LakePeople G109 -> NightHawk

    Presentation / Features / Comfort
    I was really impressed about the whole package! A nice case, 2 cables, a little booklet full of self-praise, 2 microfiber cloth and the stunning design of the NightHawk (I think the liquidwood looks fantastic).
    The cable was a little bit weird at first, beeing twisted and relatively stiff. When i plugged the cable into the Headphone the connection felt a little loose (unlike the HD600 or K7XX) but it was not a problem for now. (Once, i accidently pulled my head to far because the cable is a little shorter than the HD600's one. Only the amp was moving and the cable hold well.)

    So i put them on my head. I feared that the headband would create pressure like the K7XX would do after 30 min. But they do not. These are very comfy headphones!
    However microphony is bad on the NightHawks. I never realized how well my HD600 solved this problem. Every head movement and cable touch will be punished. This is especially bad when you get drown into the music headbanging or moving your body a little.
    So the comfort aspect drops quite a bit due to bad microphony. It also makes it a less portable Headphone than the HD600. (Even tho the NightHawk has a secondary short cable) Also the HD600 sits tighter on head.

    First Sound impressions
    Fully exited i started the first track (no burn in at all)
    I choose a track that I knew well from the past few days and would perform particularly good on the HD600. Vocal focused.
    "Yoshimi Iwasaki - Telefonade"

    I quickly adjusted the volume to an average level and I laid back ...my jar was not closing for 20 seconds ... i was stunned ... i knew they would be muffled ... I knew they would be bass heavy, but damn. I thought i had a 50€ gaming headset on me and my next thought was that i just wasted 230€. All i heard was bass overshadowing everything.

    After some time, listening to different songs and genres, my head adjusted to the mighty bass wall and i was able to lead my attention to the mid and treble region. (Remember, my ears are shaped by a HD600 for 3 years).
    I also realized that I could drive the NightHawks much louder without fatigue because they are so mellow. (You kinda have to drive them loud to witness the mids and highs at a reasonable level). The cool thing is - all the details are present. I remember when i got my HD600 and was experiencing new sounds and separations in well known tracks. All those details still exists, if you don't get distracted by the overtuned subwoofer. You want to turn the knob of the woofer down, but you can't, they are just headphones...

    Then i tried songs that would perform bad on the HD600. Harsh genres like metal and some electro stuff. The NightHawk does perform extremely well on poor recordings and underground genres. (And i thought the HD600 would be laid-backish) In comparison the HD600 seems like a sharp analytical tool.

    And now after some burn in (more ear burn in) i really enjoy the NightHawks and I'm happy with my purchase and that only after 2 days. They are truly a nice addition to my HD600 (unlike the K7XX).

    HD600 for anything well produced, instrumental or vocal focused (tracks that benefit from midrange resolution or tracks that already have tight bass) On my e-piano the HD600 is still the goto, obviously

    NightHawks for the dirty stuff or tracks that benefit from boosted bass. (Some Funk tracks sounded great with the slamming bass). It's almost like the NightHawk would "remix" tracks giving it a totally different vibe and smoothness.

    Thats it for my first impression.
    For the current price, I probably would recommend it. Especially if you are into EQing, that might do wonders like @Vtory described. I'm still not sure if the ongoing bass exposure will annoy me in the long term.
     
  5. billbishere

    billbishere Facebook Friend

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    This would seem to be the NH thread with the most current responses, though still old. So excuse the bumping of old thread but... I just pulled the trigger on a pair of these, was curious how people are getting along with them after all this time?
     
  6. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Just pulled the trigger + asking for impressions signals that you're seeking affirmation. I'd suggest you get ears on them first and draw your own conclusions about them then, if you're so willing, share them here. I know many would appreciate it. @Ryanr1987 is the only person I recall who actually liked these on here, and I don't think they've been on in a while.

    I've had the pleasure of demoing them a few times now and for the most part can't seem to get along with the Nighthawks out of any of the systems I've heard them out of. Granted none of them have been my home system, but just basing off what I know about my system I figure I might dislike them even more off it.

    Everyone hears things differently so impressions from various sources will vary somewhat, but with some diligence it's not hard to figure out the character of a component. They do some things very well, but their tonality is very much an acquired taste. The best way I can sell them is that they're a Meze 99 with significantly improved technicalities. I'm (politely) pooping on them here, but my taste in sound is pretty weird to begin with so don't let that bother you too much. I know (and know of) quite a few people who like the Mezes, for example.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  7. billbishere

    billbishere Facebook Friend

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    That is a pretty big assumption on your part, as I gave no signals of "affirmation" that I see. I have read and watched plenty on them, couldn't care less of the negativity or really opinions on the sound as sound is super subjective. It seems people either LOOOVE them or HAAATE them, there are folks on other forums buying 2nd and 3rd pairs just so they will have them since they are discontinued. I will make my own opinions when it comes to that as mine is all that matters to me. I am new to the site and was just looking to have some updated conversations on them. If there is one question it would be build quality wise, any issues with breaking of the rubber in the long term? That was really what I was getting at with my first post.

    So in that spirit I will defiantly come back and give my impressions, both before burn in and after burn in. They should arrive tomorrow with Next Day shipping. I have the HD58x as my main set of cans currently and will be my benchmark, I am really just stoked to her them for myself.
     
  8. damaged-goods

    damaged-goods Acquaintance

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    Audioquest said the rubber bands are high quality with a lifespan of 50+ years. There's not a lot of strain on them so I wouldn'd worry. Build quality of the NHs is very good.

    They're way darker than the HD58x and too far away from neutral in my book. Make sure you sort out the people who like them because they paid money for them. I always thought something must have gone wrong with the sound design because the whole project was very promissing.
     
  9. billbishere

    billbishere Facebook Friend

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    That's good to know, i actually didn't see that stat anywhere. But it didn't really seem like folks were having any issue either, if nothing else AQ quality of their products has always seemed to be top notch, just a top notch price. One of the reasons I wanted to try these is because of the value, and am intrigued by the entire situation and all the feedback from people.

    "Make sure you sort out the people who like them because they paid money for them"

    Not sure what you mean by that? Like youtube reviewers? There are many people who have paid for them and love them on other forums, and buy 2nd copies to make sure they have backups. Just didn't understand what you are trying to say with that? I have even seen some love for them on this site too, and even in this thread it's not all bad. You make it sound like all doom and gloom... hahah

    I find my opinions and outlooks are a lot of time the minority on things too so, we will see if this is another one of those. I will report back with my thoughts. I also have 30 days to return them too. I plan on running them 10 + hours a day for the first 2 weeks and if they aren't to my liking by then I will probably return them.

    One last thing - a lot of people describe the Bowers and Wilkins PX sound like the way these have been described and I love my Bowers PX. Another indicator for me that they may fit my style. But who knows.
     
  10. damaged-goods

    damaged-goods Acquaintance

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    People who justify their investment of a few hundred bucks for a headphone by posting lots of positve comments on internet forums. I've seend plenty of people buying the NH, loving is as best headphone ever and selling it months later anyways. ;-)
     
  11. billbishere

    billbishere Facebook Friend

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    Right on - not sure why they would... I mean, unless they didn't have a way to return them or something. I don't know. I just don't see much risk too it and am intrigued. and am a sucker for a value buy. I guess I will know in a couple days, well maybe a couple weeks. I have seen a couple youtube reviews say if you hate them out of the box then no amount of burn in is going to change it. Because I have seen other people completely change their opinion after burn in.

    It's bad enough sound of headphones are so subjective person to person, then you throw in buyers remorse and then people maybe getting free review units or something to say they like them. It's just so hard to tell anymore. I usually try to gauge things by sorta what the majority of people say about specific parts of the sound but, with these it's all over the place.

    I am excited to go on this journey with them either way. Returned or Cherished, we shall see soon enough.
     
  12. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Eh. The driver has potential, you can hear that, and it is really, really comfortable.

    But it's a very dark headphone with a very recessed, distant presentation.

    I use mine for BGM when I want no distractions, like doing taxes, but that's about it really. They spend the rest of the year in their box.

    Also the silver plugs on the silver cable are retarded and I never use it because I refuse to clean it.
     
  13. scapeinator1

    scapeinator1 Once You Go Black You'll Never Go Back

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    I game and occasionally watch movies with the NH. But definitely not my general purpose daily driver headphone I just like how they make certain open world games like GTA V sound.

    They're fine, I agree with them sounding dark, but that may depend on what your particular desired treble is. I used to think they were actually a bit peaky in the treble but now compared to the focal clear it doesn't seem that way anymore, YMMV. The bass is quite solid though, I think it is somewhat in the same league as planars like LCD2C though a little worse. But I don't think you'll find anyone who uses them for accurate critical listening.
     
  14. Resolve

    Resolve MOT: Headphones.com

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    I just didn't like how loose the bass and lower mids were. They tightened it up quite a bit with the nightowl. I still think there's possibilities with this stuff though since the higher sensitivity allows some crazy stuff with amp pairings. Throw it on a fast amp for example, totally different sound.
     
  15. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Looking forward to reading your impressions! To be fair it would have helped if you'd specified that you were asking how the build quality'd held up— I read your post I'd replied to as "do you still like these after all this time?".

    AudioQuest is a relatively big name in audio, I don't think they're going anywhere soon given how much they charge for cables. Pretty sure they'll be around to support buyers if any parts fail, but as noted above it's not like driver excursion will be extremely large for headphones. From a longer perspective I'd be more concerned about the drivers deteriorating as in the Sony MDR-R10, but biocellulose technology's allegedly evolved since. Eh, time will tell.

    EDIT:
    Oh, and while I do take your word that you weren't seeking affirmation (because no one lies on the internet), I will add that seeking it after an impulse buy is perfectly understandable. I got the Klipsch HP-3s in my avatar for well under MSRP because I was very much wanting a TH900 with less aggressive treble, but it seemed people were on the fence about it. I was overextending myself more than a fair bit despite the excellent deal, and a part of me really wanted to know whether I'd regret this despite having yet to get ears on them, so I got in touch with a few people (spoiler: they're not perfect by any means but I still really like em. The headphones, not the people. The people are cool).

    Either way, the only difference is that I went backchannel and PMed like 6 or 8 people instead of publicly posting it for the whole forum to gawk at, haha. Good luck, and hope they suit your tastes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  16. billbishere

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    I wasn't really trying to be specific on anything. I was curious about the long term use / wear and tear on them and just general long term thoughts. Trying to spark some conversation about them, not to get called out for trying to somehow confirm my purchase with others opinions. I have had my eye on them for over a year and have been tracking the price changes.

    I have been going back on forth on several different models of headphone lately, I have really had my eye on planar stuff, LCD2c is the ones I would probably go with there. Was also considering the M1060 and 1060C, and was thinking of getting the C and doing the openback mod. But that is actually a little more expensive to do that getting these, and the materials use in those cans are very cheap in comparison. I really wanted something in my rotation that has BASS! Though the 58x are darkest HD line, and I do enjoy the sound but... I want strong, textured, in your face bass as I listen to EDM mostly and play games. The 58x, AD700x or the SHP9500 do not really fit that bill.

    I do like gaming with both 58x and AD700x though, 58x is a bit more "fun" in game. 700x has a much wider sound stage and get pinpoint distance much better. But I digress....

    Anyway, couple hours from now I should have my first taste of these Night Hawks. Thanks for the positivity! :)
     
  17. billbishere

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  18. billbishere

    billbishere Facebook Friend

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    Not starting off too well... LOL The left side is not as loud as the right side, I am determined it's the cable. Sooo... However Amazon is taking care of it nicely. They have the stock cable for sale on the site, so I am buying it with next day shipping and they are refunded me that amount on the headphones.

    I will say though the little bit I heard I like. I just don't want to keep them playing unbalanced like that. So back to waiting.
     
  19. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    It looks they can be plugged inverted. Tried that to make sure?
     
  20. billbishere

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    i did, that is how i determined it to be the cable.
     

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