Best Amps for Sennheiser HD800

In our investigations we have used the garage project sunrise III amp and Senn 650's with a Bifrost Multibit as well as the MSD192 dacs.
This is a ≈ $1500 system with ≈ 100mW power output into the 650/800 HP's.

The results were VERY satisfactory.
But we also use 2 other mods in addition to using the Sonarworks 'No Limits" curves for the 650 and 800's.
The other 2 tweaks deal with SubSonic Bass Boost and helping the amp deliver power with less 'restriction' by utilizing a 'Phase Reversal Tweak'.

These 3 tweaks work REALLY well together.

Yes using these tweaks does need a system with 'sufficient' headroom (dynamic range) because the bottom end is boosted by ≈ 20dB ±.
But these days the equipment needed to achieve this degree of sonic correction is readily available.

The next "Better" post in the Cookbook thread will go into much more detail about these 3 tweaks and how to implement and adjust them to suit the particulars for anyone's requirements.

As for a loss of definition that can happen however there are ways to minimize these losses and maximize the gains.
Overall the net gain is significant and compelling.
At least for those who have sufficiently dialed in these 3 tweaks.

We hope to increase the number of folks who have fully implemented all 3 tweaks, in the very near future.

JJ

 

It almost sounds the same as what some people are saying about the HD800 S vs. the classic....

 

Hi all,

First post here

I've been running early HD800 alongside HD600 and DT990 600 ohm for about six months now. Basic anax mod, stock standard apart from that. Through trial and error I have built up a collection of three amps, all of which I regard as great partners for the HD800: SPL Phonitor (original pro-oriented model), Perreaux SXH-2 (beautifully turned out but quite rare Class A SS) and Schiit Lyr.

Phonitor is my favourite, and the Wadia 121 / Phonitor / HD800 is (to my ears) the best sounding HD800 rig I've heard, but then again I would say so. Incredible synergy between these three. The Wadia 121 also happens to be the best single box DAC/amp I've heard with the HD800. Having said that the Perreaux and Schiit amps are quite incredible in their own right. The Perreaux has the same detailed but non-fatiguing Class A signature as the Phonitor, but does seem to present a slightly more romantic version of events. The Lyr with stock GE tubes delivers a pretty lack luster performance, but with Siemens CCa's it really sings beautifully with incredible bass reach and definition, lovely timber and airy tops. I've also heard the HD800 make massively statisfying noises when partnered with the Woo Audio WA2.

Amps I've tried and did not particularly like include the Little Dot Mk III (which I believe owes it's legendary status to non-headphone-literate reviewers mistaking generic headphone listening characteristics to amp-specific performance - I found it unfocused and incoherent), Audeze Deckard (too warm, not detailed enough and perceived to be just a little slow for my liking), and the one-box Audiolab M-DAC. Also in this list is the Violectric V200, but I want to give that one another try.

 

I can vouch the V200 does nothing for the HD800.
No stage, no layering, no dynamics, no details, no impact, no sub bass.
It did fix the slight sibilance, added some smoothness & slight warmth, but that's it.

 

Same experience I had, but hen how should I understand this snippet (from the Lake People website I believe)?

"Axel Grell is the developer of HD800. Sennheiser has got a so called “Hall of Fame” with some headphone amps inside. Since spring 2009 one of Mr. Grells favorites is HPA V100.
He personally handed over one of three HD800 (a laboratory sample) during 2009 Hi-End exhibition in Munich to be used on Lake People booth.”

I always thought the V100 and V200 had a similar house sound ...

 

That was also 7 years ago. A lot has changed since then in the headphone world.

 

Not too much changed in the amp world though ... yes new brands and models but all essentially are just variations on old themes. An amp that was regarded as a good match (by the designer of the HD800 no less) 6 years ago should surely be a good match today?

 

I mean it helps the treble because it can make anything sound warmer, but honestly it loses too many important aspects of the HD800 to be a good pairing. People love it mostly because of how it treats the treble. Listen to their very own HDVA600/HDVD800 and see how big that difference is in terms of what they think it should sound like honestly. I mean I don't even agree with Axel on the tonal balance of the HD800 in the first place, hence the heavy handed modding on my side, but I don't think the V200 is a good option.

Especially with the current set of amps out with great price/performance deals out there below it's price point (Valhalla 2 to give an example).

 

Logically yes. But obviously things moved on. Remember how when the HD800 was first released Senn was demoing it with the Lehman BCL? Supposedly they used it well developing the headphone as well. It is still an ok match for the HD800 but nobody thinks it is any better than that. Yet at the time, it seemed like it was.

 

To build on SKiring's and shabta's comments, Senn was indeed originally demo'ing hd800's with 0 ohm output amps like Benchmarks and BCL's. Several years later, when they put out their own amp (and notwithstanding that it is an opamp based design), it was discovered to have a 42 ohm (if memory serves) balanced output, that effectively gives the hd800's a significant bass boost (due to its impedance curve), at the cost of some bass tightness. So I think the history actually shows that Senn was not satisfied with the sound signature resulting from the 0 ohm solid state amps it was originally using to demo hd800's.

Some older designs certainly remain relevant today, but many do not, particularly when it comes to the best amps for hd800's. Eddie Current, Bottlehead, ECP/Beezar, Apex, DNA, Gilmore & Spritzer, and Cavalli, to name a few, are all producing great and innovative new amps. The kings of yesteryear (Singlepower, Woo and RSA, for example), have all fallen by the wayside, and not without reason.

 

It's being assumed that audio gear is being evaluated in an absolute sense. That isn't the case; it's always being judged in a relative sense. That's why yesteryear's HD600 is no longer regarded as TOTL, but as mid-fi today.

 

Almost all the posts on this thread are questions asking if a pairing will work well or reports of being happy with their current pairing. I think it would be helpful to set up tighter criteria for a successful / unsuccesful pairing:

@purrin mentions he likes z-out between 2-12 ohm, is this due to the high impedience of the cans? What do people hear when they have a higher output amp?

Some headphones require more power to get all of the details out of them, is this also true of the hd800's? If you are underpowered are you losing detail, bass, sparkle, soundstage, etc?

Have any of the early pairing recommendations changed with the 800s or mods. Seems like a warm amp isn't as necessary since taming the 6k peak.

Anything else we should add to list as a whole? Looking to identify natural pairings quicker.

 

I'm curious if anyone has any experience with the HD800 + NFB1?

 

Anyone what the adverse effects on impedance mismatch is with the HD800?
Especially for higher output impedance amplifiers?

That link says the Ohms is about 300, but it can go higher. So would a 600 Ohms output amplifier be a better choice for the HD800?
As far as I can tell switching between 100, 300 & 600 Ohms just increases the gain/volume. Maybe even giving more weight/dynamics as well.
I need to test it out some more.

 

The best way is to try it out for yourself with various resistor values. Apparently Sennheiser themselves deliberately added resistance to their HDVD800 amplifier to raise the output impedance. I think it was around about 11 ohms, you'll have to look it up. They wouldn't do that without good cause, so it would be a good value to start with.

 

The simple answer is that as output impedance increases, hd800s get an increasing midbass boost but a corresponding decrease in bass tightness.

Marv posted comparative measurements showing this via impedance adapters on the old site but I don't have a link to the archived thread.

 

Yep, the difference in frequency response is going to occur where the impedance swings, which tends to be in the midbass region. What the graph doesn't really show is the 'looseness' of the bass that many perceive however, I'm not sure if there's a measurement that would correspond to bass looseness or tightness. Anyone care to enlighten me?

For example the HD800 from Jan Meier on the Innerfidelity post regarding the output impedance of amplifiers and the impedance of the headphone below.

 

Waiting for updates...