Beyerdynamic T1 Generation 2 Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Nov 11, 2015.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It's a dial-able Japanese amp. It will probably go from 1 ohm to 600 ohms Zout or something stupid like that. The Japanese make weird stuff. An American designer would probably pick 1 ohm (assuming everything was stable) and just say "f**k it, I'm done" without adding a damping factor dial on it or at most offer a switch for two gain levels.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  2. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    I am a fan of the Beyer DT 990 Pros, but it is kinda sad that these "Higher End" cans measure poorly. What are we planning to do? Return them and use the funds for a different set of cans to measure, or are we going to keep them for a loaner program?
     
  3. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Defeats the purpose of a separate Zout knob.... but whatever
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    In circuits with global negative feedback, adding more feedback will increase damping factor (lower amp output impedance relative to higher headphone impedance). Increased damping factor will allow more of the power to be dissipated by the headphone instead of being wasted by the amp. This gives the amp more control over the driver.

    Less control can result in a sloppier looser sound and oftentimes an increase in the bass of most traditional dynamic headphones since they usually have a impedance bump in the bass. This softer sound and increased bass will often make difficult headphones with treble peaks like the T1 more tolerable.

    Back to the subject on negative feedback: it does awesome things like prevent certain transistor designs from overloading and exploding, increase damping factor, extend frequency response and make it more linear. However too much of it can make amps sound closed in, flatter, or more dead sounding. There are many schools of thought on this which are beyond the scope of this discussion.

    Tube amps because of their nature, tend to have lower feedback and higher output impedance. In general, I prefer listening to most Beyer headphones from tube amps. If I had a choice, I prefer not to listen to Beyer Tesla headphones at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    For the record, I prefer an output Z between 3 and 20 ohms for dry sounding headphones like the HD800.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    What did you expect from the culture that brought us Ultraman, $700 super tweeters, shiny Urushi-e cups, and $10,000 horn drivers.

    The preference thing only applies to HD800.

    Dynamics headphones are tricky in that their nominal impedance can range from 25ohms to 600ohms, and the impedance bump in the bass can be at different frequencies or be different in extent.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  7. borrego

    borrego Incessant Audio-GD #1 Fan Boy

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    Vast difference between Japanese and US headphone amp design philosophy. You rarely find a Japanese headphone amp output more than 0.1W of power. My EPA-007 is hopeless driving my HE-500, but let every dynamic headphone I have sing in its own designed signature (diaphragm rigidity/decay).

    US headphone amps, even the portable ones, rarely output less than 0.5W of power nowadays. So in most case the amps are forcing headphones into submission, following the amps' sound signature.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  8. Klasse

    Klasse Friend

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  9. sometimeshere

    sometimeshere New

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    Not that I want to perform some sort of Jamaican necro on this thread, but the general consensus is that the T1v2 is worse than T1? I had thought that all they had done would be to provide a bass boost. Also why is there now a peak at the 6.5k and a dip right after? What could this be intended to do? (I don't mean this in a contrary manner, just a little confused as to what is going on).

    And also, is better to have a bass boost or a treble reduction?
     
  10. Negura

    Negura Friend

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    I'd go for the T1 V1 if it has to be done.
     
  11. sometimeshere

    sometimeshere New

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    Well, I already have the T1V1 haha.....derp. At the price I bought it I found it to be generally quite agreeable.
     
  12. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    The T1.2 has very recessed upper mids and the treble is boosted and etched. Try it to be sure, though.
     
  13. sometimeshere

    sometimeshere New

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    I will, indeed. Have you ever tried the gen 1 by any chance? The funny thing is, there is seems to be so much manufacturing variance going around, especially since Beyerdynamic does so many silent revisions. I've got one of the late models, and I find it to be overall, very pleasant.
     
  14. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    Really? Can you name a case? I asked them before and the DT 770/880/990 for example haven't been changed since the 2005 revision.
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Gen 1 seems to be the safer choice.
     
  16. elwappo99

    elwappo99 Friend

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  17. sometimeshere

    sometimeshere New

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    Well, on HF there was an example of a high 20,000 +serial number T1 gen 1 where the driver baffle was that of the gen 2. Now, sonic differences have yet to be definitively proven as there is so little info going around except for a photo.

    Sonically, the T1's treble I believe has been played with ever so slightly since its release. I'm not too sure about the DT770/880/990s though.
     
  18. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    It would be hard to identify the treble being tinkered with on Beyer's end when there is so much unit variance to begin with, how do you know it's not just a case of poor QC?

    I do wonder why a Gen 1 would have the Gen 2 baffle if the Gen 2 is supposed to be a replacement and not a 'side-step' like the HD800S..
     
  19. sometimeshere

    sometimeshere New

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    Well, you raise a good point and may indeed be right @ Chakku! My general understanding is up to 3000-4000 mark T1s had some general QC issues. Afterwards, the problems seem to have settled, but sonic changes were still being reported. Now, perhaps the manufacturing variance is simply so huge that Beyer can't tune more than a couple of T1s the same at a time. I'm tempted to give them the benefit of the doubt there though and say that the wildly varying observations (at times) are due to intentional changes.

    For the latter, I have no idea what is going on. I'll just link ya' here. It'd be quite the stir if it turned out the drivers were also gen 2 wouldn't it...

    http://www.head-fi.org/t/508836/the...ons-and-discussion-thread/10035#post_12465647
     
  20. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    [​IMG]

    In the end all we can do is speculate
     

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