Bifrost 4490

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Skyline, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. sah

    sah Acquaintance

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    Having spent a few hours listening last night, here are my initial impressions of the Bifrost 4490 vs the Modi 2U. I don't have experience with higher-end DACs, so this is probably going to be most useful for people thinking about upgrading from a Modi or ODAC for the first time.

    First, my setup is Tidal HiFi / Spotify high quality -> MacBook USB (which I've found quite good) -> DAC -> Valhalla 2 -> HD600. I also tried streaming to my Apple TV and using the toslink inputs with both DACs, but I couldn't discern any difference from USB.

    The differences between the Bifrost 4490 and the Modi 2U are fairly subtle, to my ears and in my setup. I spent some time going back and forth wondering whether I could really hear any difference at all. I believe I can, but I don't have the setup to do a blind ABX test and prove it.

    I started down this path because I was surprised by how much difference the Modi 2U made in my setup compared the line out on an Airport Express. I bought the Modi as a connector, so that I could stream from my Apple TV using the toslink out. I hadn't expected to notice or care about the differences between DACs, but the Modi 2U sounded immediately, obviously better. Hence my current exploration of the next step up.

    The difference in quality with the Bifrost is definitely not on the same scale as that initial step up to the Modi was. Both sound good in the first few seconds of listening after I switch between them. There's no immediate sense that the Modi sounds lackluster after switching back from the Bifrost. Instead, over several minutes of listening to the Bifrost, I find:
    • I'm enjoying the music more.
    • I notice and enjoy the bass more. I wind up feeling like the low end is warm and pleasant, which is not something that normally happens with the HD600.
    • There's something more natural and fun about cymbals and snares, especially in their low frequency impact. (Maybe the timing is just slightly more perfectly aligned? Something like that.)
    • There's a clarity or smoothness in the midrange that makes guitars and voices sometimes strike me as just a little more separated in the mix and realistic.
    • The "inside my head" soundstage that sometimes bugs me about the HD600 is less bothersome. I wonder if there might be something about how phase differences between channels are rendered that might be possible to pin down with measurements.

    I also tried comparing to my ODAC for a while. For me the ODAC and the Modi 2U sound almost identical from my MacBook's USB. The ODAC is maybe just the slightest bit more bright, clear, maybe slightly shouty; or maybe it sounds the same and I'm imagining those differences — it's pretty damn close. I noticed the midrange clarity of the Bifrost less when switching back and forth with the ODAC, and I think I noticed the Bifrost's pleasant bass even more.

    We'll see if all of the above stands up to further listening. I may yet decide that I'm hallucinating these differences and I can save some cash by sticking with the Modi. I should also be getting a Bifrost Multibit later this week, so I'll post another comparison once I've spent some time with that.
     
  2. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Quick question, are you playing Tidal and Spotify from a browser or app?
     
  3. sah

    sah Acquaintance

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    Spotify from the app, Tidal from the browser.
     
  4. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    Have you ever listened to full res ripped music on your macbook and compared to Spot or Tide? Wonder if the browser and apps are holding back fidelity a bit. I'll let others chime in because I have not used Spotify in ages and well Tidal is not for me.

    I see Amarra supports Tidal and Audirvana Plus is supposed to at some pint.
     
  5. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    Thanks for the impressions.

    Also, please do write your thoughts comparing Bifrost Multibit to 4490, I am very curious as I am running a similar chain (Bifrost Multibit -> Valhalla 2-> hd650), and also came from the Modi 2. I am interested in possibly getting a 4490 for a 2nd rig.

    The thing is, comparing DACs is hard IMHO. I think that sometimes, or depending on the day, I can do this better than other times, but sometimes the differences can be very hard to pin down, such as just the "feeling" that you are more immersed. But when you can't quite put a finger on it, it's harder to feel certain that it's not imagination. That said, when I compare the Modi 2 (non-uber) to the Gungnir Multibit, the thing I can pretty reliably sense is a significant difference in the instrument focus and sense of 3d space/positioning. Also, as you noted, the in your head feel of the hd6x0 is diminished, the stage seems to move out/off your head a little. So, I guess I'm just saying that the spatial stuff might be something to look for.
     
  6. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    Agree with @lm4der on the spatial cues.

    Having also gone form the Modi 2U to the 4490, the best way I can describe the difference is that the 4490 sounds less congested.
     
  7. sah

    sah Acquaintance

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    Tidal HiFi is lossless 16/44.1 FLAC. To be honest though, I haven't heard a difference between lossless and Spotify's "high quality" encodes on the systems I've tried so far. Maybe I'll try exploring different players/encodes with the Bifrost, or try http://abx.digitalfeed.net/list.html again.
     
  8. mike.s

    mike.s New

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    Audirvana supports browsing and streaming of Tidal full quality.

    I've done ABX testing of Spotify 320 on MBP app and the same exact recording Redbook and found a noise issue on Spotify in head to head. I'm definitely not a "golden ear" but it was evident to my ear! Definitely more discernible IMHO then the diff between Modi 2U and Bifrost 4490!
     
  9. sah

    sah Acquaintance

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    The Bifrost Multibit showed up midweek, and I've now spent several hours over the last few days comparing Modi 2U vs. Bifrost 4490 vs. Bifrost Multibit. My setup for all of these comparisons has been Tidal HiFi -> MacBook USB -> DAC -> Valhalla 2 -> HD600.

    The differences have become a lot easier to pick out over time! Unlike in my initial impressions, on many tracks I do now find the Modi 2 lackluster on switching back to it from the Bifrosts (and not just because it's a bit quieter, which it is — I've been re-adjusting volume every time.)

    All of the things I originally mentioned still describe what I hear. I'd add that the 4490 seems to have something better about its dynamic range than the Modi; I'm not sure I know what it is exactly, but one difference I can reliably pick out is that loud sounds have more punch on the Bifrost, even at lower overall volumes. I actually end up listening to the Bifrost at lower perceived volumes, because I don't have to turn it up as much for music to sound satisfying. The better bass and mids that I mentioned before have become a particularly clear difference — the Modi sounds thin in comparison.

    So, how does the Multibit compare to the 4490? Mostly I would say that the Bifrost Multibit takes another step in the same direction as the 4490 on many of these dimensions of variation. I think the Bifrost Multibit helped me learn what to listen for when comparing the 4490 to the Modi. It has even fuller bass and low mids. More of that improvement in dynamics, more of a sense of instruments being separate from one another.

    Something is different about the treble as well. The 4490 makes the high frequencies more noticeable — maybe actually louder — but I don't think they're clearer. Cymbals sound more laid back in the mix but maybe more distinct and realistic on the Bifrost Multibit. The overall effect is like the Bifrost Multibit is EQed warmer than the 4490, but I think it's also resolving more detail and presenting things more clearly in what are becoming familiar hard-to-describe, DAC-y ways. But the difference seems subtle enough that I could imagine that when warmth is unwanted, the 4490 may actually be preferable.

    I'm not sure yet what I'm going to keep. When I'm not listening critically, the 4490 and the Multibit both seem to be more fun to listen to for longer periods than the Modi, so I suspect I'll be keeping at least one of them.
     
  10. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    [​IMG]

    My Bifrost 4490 arrived today. Just started listening a little while ago so no impressions yet. This completes my current** endgame setup for my HD650. I eventually plan on getting an HD800 in the future as well.

    **endgame is a life-long pursuit, I'm sure I'll upgrade further in the years ahead.
     
  11. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

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    Not going to lie, this setup makes me jealous. Congrats!
     
  12. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    @Mystic that's a fantastic setup. Endgame, indeed.
     
  13. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    I went from a Modi 2 (non uber) to Bifrost 4990 and the difference was anything but subtle. Music sounded more like music and less like a digital representation of it. The 4490 does a much better job capturing the "soul" of the music to use an esoteric description. Soundstage, imaging, weight, transients, attack, decay, PRAT, depth, clarity... everything across the board was massively improved. And all of that was made even better when I added a Regen.

    I dont have alot of experience with DACs other than the old Modi and an Audioengine D1 I had a while back, but having paid only $350 for a used 4490, I can say I made off with a steal.
     
  14. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    I've got a question about connecting my Bifrost to two different amps. Should I only have one amp on at a time, or can they both be on, but only plug into one at a time?

    Using either a splitter or a piggyback RCA cable.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  15. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    A splitter in most cases should be just fine unless there's something weird happening with one of the amps.
     
  16. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    I can have both amps powered on at the same time?
     
  17. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

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    Both amps can be left on. At meets I have a rca splitter and 2 amps running at same time. Your just cutting the signal out from the rca
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  18. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    Thanks! Would it be recommended not to have headphones plugged into both at the same time or does it not matter?
     
  19. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

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    No problem to listen to both at the same time. You are just splitting the input signal. No harm.
     
  20. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    Alright, thanks. I guess I was assuming that there would be degradation in the signal if it was being actively split and outputting two separate ways at the same time. Will make it much easier for me now, thank you.
     

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