Bill's HD800 mod thread (final version)

Discussion in 'Modifications and Tweaks' started by Bill-P, Sep 27, 2015.

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  1. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Wow... ya know, since you mentioned speakers, I remembered some of them have foam sitting in front of the driver to diffuse things, so... I'm going to try them in some ways now.

    Thank you, good sir!!
     
  2. mvwvm

    mvwvm New

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    Great stuff, subbed.
     
  3. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Yeah, I am practically done with the mod now. Will sit back, relax and enjoy it for the next few days until the SF Bay micro meet, because I'd like to take notes of impressions from others before proceeding with any change. I think I've achieved a nice balance, but it may still "behave" differently with other gears.
     
  4. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    Pics and measurements please :) very curious to see your work.
     
  5. NoStream

    NoStream Acquaintance

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    For those of you who have experimented with rug liner vs. full anax 2.0 mods, what are your opinions?

    I have rug liner on the way via Amazon but am wondering whether it's worth bothering with foam. Then they'll be sent off for measurements for EQ calibration, so I'm looking to fix decay times and imaging more than wide peaks and nulls. (Though flattening out that 6k peak a bit would always be a plus.)
     
  6. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    I wanted to do away with the rug liner. It does add bass at the expense of reducing the sound stage. Plus I would like to believe that Sennheiser engineered the f**k out of that silver mesh acoustic properties. If they thought foamy stuff was better suited there they probably would have used that instead. However one place that they didn't seem to put a lot of work in is the exposed plastic parts, which is where sound is probably being reflected inside the cup. I had some DynaLiner left over so used that as opposed to the creatology foam felt. The dynaliner felt more damp. Tapping it produces a dull dead sound. Tapping the creatology foam produces a higher pitch sound, similar to a muffled clap.

    Any whom, I cut out a 5mm thick strip and wrapped it around the cup edge, right next to the ear pads. This covers up a good portion of the exposed plastic and to me seems to reduce some of the harshness of the treble, which could very well be a result of the reflections off the plastic.
    [​IMG]

    Would be interesting to try to cover all the exposed plastic that would allow sound to reflect inside the cups with acoustic dampening foam. It sounds good to me but it would be good to confirm with measurements if anyone wants to try this.

    Sound wise, on the Eagles - Hell Freezes Over - Hotel California track, when the bass comes in at the intro, you can hear a second very deep bass drum (kind of like boawmmm sound) come in when the maracas start shaking and it's pretty distinct. Definitely not a "one note" bass sound.
     
  7. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I've got a few different rug liners and foams. I'm also bugging CEE TEE and between the two of us we'll make some solidworks templates to try out different shapes. Both of us are pretty busy but over the next few months, but I'll try to laser cut some of the different shapes and designs and we'll report back on the results. Maybe we should figure out if Bill has a reasonable measurement methodology and make him measure the different materials and mods, otherwise once we're past the holidays I'll see if I can free up enough time to cobble together a measurement rig here.

    I'm hoping we'll have a few flagship superBAF mods that we can publish over time. If things ease up post holidays, I'll laser cut and send out some of the better mods (including Bill's weird combination of garbage and mass loader bits if it sounds good) to some folks for free.
     
  8. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    @George Mhmmm : you still kept the ring creatology + felt around the driver ?
     
  9. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    I am not exactly sure what Hands used for the mod on the pair of the HD800's he loaned me (possibly an Anax mod?) but they sounded incredible. Best headphones I have ever heard.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    P.S. Sorry for the blurry photos, my camera sucks
     
  10. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    For now yes. When I have more time I want to expirement removing it and adding more of the dynaLiner around the base of the cups, where the pads connect. There is still some exposed plastic. So far tho the headphones sound really open, more bassy and detailed but smooth treble.
     
  11. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    Dear people,

    I seen that many of you choose to take off the dust cover. Is it a confirmed option for better sound?

    Regards,
    Jeremiah
     
  12. NoStream

    NoStream Acquaintance

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    I pulled out my dust cover a few days ago in anticipation of installing rug liner this weekend. Initial impression is that the treble is noticeably harsher and more fatiguing, even with my old EQ settings (-3 dB at 6.5k and +3 dB from 80hz down). I haven't examined their resolution in-depth.

    Presumably, mods will eliminate that harshness but retain a potential increase in resolution.

    Edit, 10/15: with rug liner installed, glare is under control. But this may just be "brain burn-in."
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Some people feel you get more microdetail without the screen. Others feel the treble is rougher and grainy. Really up to you how you feel about it. I've tended to run the HD800 with the dustcovers on, even with the mods.
     
  14. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    One thing I've learned as I've looked at the inside of the HD800 with the original mod, the traditional shapes aren't necessarily perfect when compression fitting. We're currently experimenting with different shapes.
     
  15. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    I like the screen and materials that Hands put on the loaner pair he loaned me (possibly an anax mod?) [Please see post #29 in this thread]. Like I said, I am not sure the name of the mod Hands did on the HD800's he loaned me, but they sounded incredible, easily the best headphones I have EVER heard.
     
  16. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    Though I have not done the mods on my HD800, I would consider keeping the dustcover as I feel the un-modded HD800 is transparent enough, unlike the HD650. But I can see that for those who have very warm and smooth DAC/AMP, removing the dustcover may yield greater perceived clarity. Will do the comparison soon...
     
  17. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    I got some positive comments on the HD800 mod today, so I'll do a guide on my 1.0 mod soon. Just need to gather the photos, source the materials online (I procured all of them locally), and then do a writeup.

    It's nigh time for a new HD800 mod. :)

    And TomNC, I think with the right mod, you can listen to the HD800 without the dust cover. If for no reason other than that... there'll be slightly more room for your ears when the dust covers are taken off.
     
  18. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    Alright so I've been trying different things out this past week or two and think I came up with something worth while to increase bass response, and reduce treble harshness while maintaining the detailed, extremely open, and wide sound that makes the HD800 so magical. I don't have a measurement rig, but I did a series of A/B tests on various tracks that were particularly problematic for me before. The mod makes an appreciable difference in taming the excessive treble ringing, and adding depth and slam to the bass, all while keeping the wide sound stage and airy treble.

    I am including a step by step tutorial with shitty finger drawings to help you replicate what I did. The goal of this mod is to dampen the rear of the headphones, while leaving a dynamic and lively front. This is done to mimic a listening room where the front is lively and the rear is dead and absorbing. In addition, the exposed plastic near the pads are covered to reduce unwanted reflections and improve the seal of the pads. All the silver mesh that doesn't have plastic behind it is left open to preserve sound stage and air. An optional last step can add vocal presence at the minor expense of air and soundstage.

    Tools Needed
    Printer
    Scissors
    Sharp Knife with small blade (for detailed cuts)
    Tweezers (Helps for smaller piece placement)

    Materials Needed
    Rug Liner
    Dynaliner (1/8th inch thick)
    Felt
    Printer Paper

    Gather your tools and materials. Michaels or Big Lots will have rug liners. Car audio stores should have Dynaliner. Ask nicely and they can cut you a small piece from their big roll for free, otherwise this stuff is expensive due to bulk buy only options. Print out Tyll's HD800 mod diagram.

    Instructions
    0. Remove the dust cover of your HD800s. All diagrams below have the pads excluded from the drawings for simplicity.

    1. Felt ring around the driver.

    • Using the knife and scissors, cut out the felt rings from Tyll's HD800 diagram. My recommendation is to cut just barely inside the black lines the felt rings fits just over the metal ring and doesn't cover the driver AT ALL.
    2. First layer of dynaliner
    • Cut out the trapezoids using Dynaliner from Tyll's HD800 diagram. Cut the rectangle piece connecting to the ring a little thicker so it covers the plastic inside the HD800s completely. Apply the trapezoid to the plastic in the rear of the cups.
    • Cut out 5mm thick strips of dynaliner roughly 6 or 7 cm long. Apply then right below the pads, covering the immediately visible black plastic, but not the other half of the plastic that is covered by the silver mesh. Do this around the circumference of the cups, stopping once you reach the trapezoid piece.

    3. Second layer of dynaliner

    • Cut out an obtuse triangle, and another rectangle of dynaliner. Apply them over the first layer of dynaliner to create a pyramid like shape over the plastic in the rear of the cups.
    • Cut out 10mm thick strips of dynaliner roughly 6 to 7 cm long. Line up the edges so that the plastic below the silver mesh is covered, and overlap the first layer of dynaliner with the remainder. Hold the headphones up to light to help you see through the silver mesh if you can't see it.
    • Cut out 5mm wide strips and cover the 2 rear plastic strips connecting the driver to the cup. They should be a little over 10mm in length.

    4. Rug liner in the rear

    • Fill in the 2 rear exposed silver meshes with rug liner. Cut out small squares and trim them for a perfect fit. You want to stuff these in-between the dynaliner so they don't move.
    5. Optional rug liner in the front
    This adds a little more vocal presence at the expense of slightly reducing the sound stage and ultra-high treble or air if you will.

    • Cut out 5mm strips of dynaliner and cover the 2 plastic pieces in the front of the cups.
    • Fill the space between them with rug liner in the front end of the cup. (Pictured)
    • For even more vocal presence but even smaller sound stage, stuff rug liner above and below too. (Not pictured)
    Here are some shitty finger drawings to help. For demonstration purposes, the pads are excluded.
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  19. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Oh hey, that's actually pretty close to what I have. Good job, George!

    Whatever my mod is is basically a more extreme version of that... basically in order to bring the response down to being close to my HD600 (completely fatigue-free treble) while still retaining some of the open-ness.
     
  20. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    George, thanks for a great post. I have no experience working with dynaliner. How hard is it to readjust or remove it once placed?
     

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