Bill's HD800 mod thread (final version)

Discussion in 'Modifications and Tweaks' started by Bill-P, Sep 27, 2015.

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  1. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    On the headphones themselves, dynaliner relatively easy. I stuck it to my mouse pad, and to my hands to reduce the sticky-ness so it even peels easier if you want to make adjustments. It has a thin adhesive plastic strip as opposed to adhesive applied directly to the material.

    Dynaliner to dynaliner is another story. Get it right the first time, otherwise when you peel it, you will very likely rip off a little bit of the dynaliner below it, making the adhesive nearly unusable (depending on how hard you pressed the two pieces together).
     
  2. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    Thanks again for your tips. BTW, what amp do you use to drive your HD800?
     
  3. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    Oppo HA-1. Some people say there are better options, especially in the DAC department but I am happy with it and find it very feature rich.
     
  4. antifocus

    antifocus Friend

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    You have my utmost respect for the pics alone.
     
  5. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    Does anybody have some dynaliner (1/8 inch) to share with me for $10? I also have some rug liner (black) to share if needed. Thanks.
     
  6. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    Try going to different car audio stores and politely ask to buy a small piece of dynaliner or any left over scrap pieces they have. They'll probably just give it to you since it's a very small amount compared to what they normally sell people.
     
  7. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    Thanks. Will do.
     
  8. paranoidroid

    paranoidroid Friend

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    I just modded my new HD800 using the Anax 2.0 template. I only used 2mm thick wool felt instead of creatology foam and used the 'wide' template. I did some measurements before the mod and after with the headphones on my head and with the volume levels unchanged. Interestingly, the treble remained mostly at the same level (after many averages before and after mod). But the whole area from 20hz - 1khz is lifted by 1-1.5db. This was consistent between both drivers. As small as that changed measured, it made the HD800 listenable to me where as before it'd get grating after a while and I'd switch to my HE1000.

    I guess raising 20hz-1khz by a bit essentially is the same as lowering everything after 1khz the same amount. But I found it interesting that in my particular implementation it increased the lower range instead of reducing the highs as I'd thought it would - from the theory that it was damping out reflections from the driver ring and plastic area.
     
  9. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    Interesting findings. Have you damp all the plastic areas close to the pad like George did? Perhaps you can continue to add rug liner to cover the large reflection area or some selected areas like George illustrated. Thanks for sharing your progress.
     
  10. paranoidroid

    paranoidroid Friend

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    I didn't damp out all of the plastic under the pad, just the large trapezoid area and in the exact same shape as the Anax 2.0 template. Since the 'wide' ring on that template is wider than the metal driver ring it covers, it probably helps with a bit of the bass seal. I noticed breaking the seal greatly diminishes the bass, so the HD800 needs the seal/compression of the silver mesh to help give it low end.

    With the rug liner it also covers up more of the mesh so my guess is it'd give it even more seal and thus bass, and probably absorbs treble.

    I was just surprised to find the 6k peak pretty much unchanged by covering the metal ring and trapezoid with 2mm wool felt when measured. But the small lift of 1-1.5db under 1k definitely seems to help with the perception of brightness.
     
  11. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Yeah, the 6KHz peak is immovable. There really is nothing you can do about it. It is inherently a part of the driver's characteristics.

    All that can be done is lift the 20 - 1KHz region even further, so I knew early on that the silver mesh... must absolutely be completely covered in some way in order for the response to truly be close to neutral.

    Note: this is why I think Marv and some other modders gave up and went the HD650 route instead. They found that the things they did simply killed the HD800. I think I may be getting close to a solution, but... I could just be dreaming it up myself.
     
  12. paranoidroid

    paranoidroid Friend

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    @Bill-P I was curious about your measurements with your mod. From the scale, it looks like the treble region is lowered. But did you normalize the frequency response against the lower region so it looks that way? When I did my measurements, I didn't touch the volume knob and it was clear the 20 - 1khz region was being lifted. I was hoping to just damp the treble region instead, but I guess this works too.

    I can see how making the mesh more closed to give more compression as well as more absorbing material will give the headphone more low end, but I can see how that'd also kill the advantages the HD800 has in soundstage.
     
  13. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    I'm not using an amp with analog volume knob (potentiometer) because I don't trust that I can measure them to that tight a tolerance. So I'm using a device that has digital volume. Not the best for listening, but better for monitoring and measurement purposes. But having said that, without really changing digital volume, I'm noticing bass rise as well.

    However, it's all about the relative differences here. I usually normalize 500 - 1KHz to 90dB, and then look at the rest of the other regions to see if they are in line, or overdone/recessed. At stock, this difference for the HD800 is roughly 6.5dB for my measurement system, which is to say... that's quite a lot.

    After modding, it's down to 2.5dB, which is still a bit much, but more doable, and that's more because the region from 20Hz - 1KHz rose up, as you said. I have been experimenting, and I think we can achieve an almost neutral sound signature without causing too much of a loss of soundstage/detail, but... how close we can get to that, I don't know yet.
     
  14. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    You gotta try the dynaliner around the cup circumference. It adds a good amount of slam to the bass. You can even try whatever foam you have. Start with one layer first and if you want even more bass, add the second layer. It's hard to be sure without measurements on my end, but bass improved the most with my mod. I've even considered thinning the foam near the pads since the bass is ...aaaallllllmost too much (but in a fun way)
     
  15. paranoidroid

    paranoidroid Friend

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    @Bill-P sounds like ideally you have a second stock HD800 to compare as you work on things. Otherwise it'd be too hard to go by memory or from the occasional meet.
     
  16. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Well, what I'd usually do for a comparison is to mod just one side of the headphone. So... I'd put the mod on the right side, and keep the left side stock, then I'd mod the left side and remove the mod on the right side. That usually gives me a better image of the relative differences.

    And yeah, George. I've already done some of what you did, and a bit more. I'm just waiting on my HD800 to come in on Friday to start taking photos, and then I'll write up a guide. Aside from dynaliner, you may also want to take a look at sorbothane, which I think has better reflective properties than other common materials mentioned here, and it's less messy to deal with than dynamat.

    You may also want to try putting an open-cell foam ring on top of the felt ring. This does decrease a bit of treble within measurements, but it doesn't cause the loss of soundstage that Anax mod 2.0 / Rabid Dog mod 1.0 or whatever Tyll Hertsens did to his headphone.

    I'll hopefully be able to do a progressive measurement of the differences that every little thing (felt, foam, etc...) makes, so that you can tailor them to your needs accordingly. That's why the guide is taking me so long. :)
     
  17. paranoidroid

    paranoidroid Friend

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    I know Tyl has the foam below the felt on the driver ring in his Anax mod writeup. Do you think there's a difference if the foam is on top or below the felt? I didn't have any foam so just used wool felt. Really looking forward to seeing your incremental measurements!
     
  18. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Yeah, there'll be a difference. Mostly due to surface reflections. Felt reflects differently compared to foam after all.

    Of the many foam types I have used, speaker filters (open-cell foam) is the best kind to use because it somewhat reduces high frequencies while keeping just barely enough air so that soundstage doesn't collapse into a gooey bunch. At this point, I really believe the soundstage and air of the HD800 are a real thing, and not just due to its heightened treble.
     
  19. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    I went ahead and did the Anax mod Innerfidelity version that Tyll uses for his personal HD800. The result is that I can take off the treble-related EQ section for my HD800, and only focus on giving it a bass-boost to compensate for rolloff. Apart from the fuller sound, the more interesting thing is I find the treble more detailed, as it decays better, and isn't 'whited-out' in a sense like it was before.

    Spend 4 dollars, get 400 dollars worth of sonic upgrade.
     
  20. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    So I revised my coupler a bit to account for better seal and pressure loss and so on, and then I measured my brand spanking new HD800 to find this:

    billhd800stock.png

    As compared to my modded HD600 on the same measurement rig:

    billhd600mod.png

    So if that's to be believed, this pair is actually fairly neutral, save for the 6KHz peak. Let's see if I can do anything about that...
     

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