Bought a Gungnir Multibit... So far not impressed. Why?

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Vastx, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    It's too bad the DAC2 isn't quite there at 130 to complete the stack, but then again the company hates DSD anyway so probably best to look elsewhere if you want 'full' support, up to 128x stupidity rate. Woops did I just say that out loud?
     
  2. murray

    murray Friend

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    130 dB SNR is not very feasible in real world implementations - you would have to have less than 1 microvolt measured noise on a 3 volt signal.
     
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Why do you demand DSD?
     
  4. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    Some people just thinks it sounds better, or they already have enough material to warrant it.
     
  5. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    To each his own, but I'd just use software to convert to PCM and use a Master Race Multibit DAC. :p
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I just realized something. XLR to RCA is a bad bad idea on the Schiit DACs. Without saying much more, it could cause higher distortion. The proper way is a Jensen 4:1 XLR to RCA box or simply the RCA outputs.
     
  7. 3X0

    3X0 Friend

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    Returns to an earlier post in the thread FWIR.
    Given the way balanced connections work, I think inferior performance with XLR->RCA is to be expected? You would no longer enjoy the benefits of common mode rejection and you might be exposed to that incremental noise vs. the default RCA outputs.

    http://www.perreaux.com/blog/2012/2/27/balanced-vs-unbalanced-audio
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  8. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    You were using adapter cables for the conversion?
    Edit: Nevermind. i just read it again. Yeah, I think Mr Moffat has spoken against this method over on that other site...
     
  9. GUTB

    GUTB Reddit rejected: Audiophile; SBAF rejected: Poseur

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    DSD is better than PCM. There are some audiophile labels that put out very high-quality DSD recordings; Channel Classics even masters DSD straight from analog. Also, there are a bunch of classic and modern material in which the only alternative to CD is SACD. I may end up going a dual route -- a R2R DAC for PCM listening from the PC, and a DSD setup for that material, perhaps something like the Esoteric K-07X (which does native DSD decoding via its 4490).

    But damn, I'm also trying my best not to blow a fortune on this stuff while attempting to build a super high resolution playback system to maximize the benefits of DSD. That Esoteric "only" has 117 SNR. I'm trying not to spend on a Hugo TT, MSB Analog, etc, and then have to get a ultra high SNR preamp ontop of it. The Sabre in the Gustard X20 isn't really native DSD, but close enough and $800 beats the crap out of 7-10k I'd otherwise be in the hole for.
     
  10. 3X0

    3X0 Friend

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    Woah. Those are fighting words.

    Are you sure this alleged superiority actually holds true in both theory and practice? There are enormous marketing resources invested in getting users to convert to new standards and re-buy their libraries.
     
  11. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    Better is really a relative term when it comes to dsd. Dsd is all about noise shaping and moving up ultrasonic noise. Not saying it doesn't sound good, it's just not empirically better than pcm. Here's an article from Dr Mark Waldrep (Cal Northridge) and John Siau from Benchmark on measured and sonic merits, if you're interested. I'm not some lame objectivist, but it's an interesting read.
     
  12. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    Yup. Dsd does sound good, imo, but it's not higher fidelity than hi res 24/96 recordings. Not to mention that Sony has been too short sighted and stupid to release their dsd archives in the first place. To promote a format, then trickle out material? Moronic.
     
  13. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

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    If better masters were the reason, you would be better off converting those files via DoP to PCM and listening with a better DAC. Of course you didn't really come here for good advice or to help people learn, so this is entirely pointless.

    "Muh HE-6"
    "Muh Pioneer receiver"
    "Muh cryo'd power cables"
    "Muh DSD"
    "LOL @ le poor peoplez"

    Your posting history in a nutshell.
     
  14. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    I had a fever and the prescription was.. .more dickish mode !
     
  15. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    couldn't agree more, but ah it's this a bit of "old news"? or maybe should be in a SBAF sticky FAQ/Best Practices ?
    we went through the topic(s) of Jensen ISOmax XLR to RCA converter boxes back when BW1 was released back on changstar.... especially with Yggdrasil/Gungnir Multibit DACs.
     
  16. bixby

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    Most of the DSD files I have heard of older albums that were done in sacd and ripped, SUCK. Not sure if it is the fact that when the sacd discs were done the original master tapes were long gone and they were using 3rd gen safe copies or it was some idiot engineer that thought he ought to turn up the highs or compress it, but suck it did.

    And I still think something is aliasing into the audible high frequency area that does not sound natural, maybe some distortion but it may be dac dependent. Edit: Or maybe it was the noise reduction they decided to use when converting an analog tape to sacd, but something is not right. I am very happy with redbook.

    Now, there are some studios doing fantastic stuff on DSD today and it sounds, well glorious, if you like the music that gets recorded by these studios. I personally don't! Reminds me of the old vinyl days when direct to disc was all the rage. Sorry I can only stomach Thelma Houston or Bob James once or twice. Back in the day I would rather take a standard vinyl recording of Supertramp to listen to over and over. |\/|
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  17. FlySweep

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    @purrin the specs on those Jensen, Neutrik, etc. XLR-to-RCA boxes show some bass roll off (i.e. -3dB @ 40hz).. is this of concern? Does this make just using RCA a better proposition for fidelity?
     
  18. GUTB

    GUTB Reddit rejected: Audiophile; SBAF rejected: Poseur

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    You know it would be NICE if Schiit didn't have such crappy SE outputs on their balanced gear. But oh well, the price is right so I guess you take the bad with the good.

    In regards to DSD, it better represents analog audio in the digital domain than PCM does. But, unfortunately, there are very few options for actually decoding DSD streams without conversion to PCM first, thereby reducing DSD's inherently superior fidelity. 1-bit DSD streams do not survive decimation / dithering to any other format without loss -- I believe conversion to some monstrously high PCM sample rate @ 64-bit gives you almost lossless, but there are no DACs capable of anything remotely that high. The problem is, almost ALL SACD players are not capable of native DSD decoding, so for all these years people playing SACDs on those units are really listening to PCM (albeit it at a higher sample rate that CD).
     
  19. MrButchi

    MrButchi Gear Master Europe

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    I may be confused, but I understood from Jason's posts that the relative "crappyness" of Schiit's SE vs their XLR outputs doesn't stem from inner crappyness, but rather from the inherent balance of the designs.

    Buy a Jensen thingie and you'll be set ? (but I can't guarantee that Jensen's Isobox's THD and SNR will suit your needs)
     
  20. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    'Splain dis shit.

    Just go vinyl, magnetic tape, or hire a band for music that can still be legitimately reproduced today. :p
     

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