Campfire Audio Andromeda Review: Holy Cow, This is a Dream, Awesomesauce!

I'm sorry for being dense by asking people to repeat what they've already said but I'm having a really hard time deciding between the Sony WM1A and ZX2. I keep re-reading the thread but it's frankly confusing with the various views and variables and I want to distill things down a bit. I was going to go with the ZX2 since it has Wifi and the form factor is a little nicer but after further thought sound quality is the only thing I'm concerned about. Every other difference between the two is fine with me either way.

I have only used single ended headphones in the past so the comparison between the two units in single or balanced is what is really throwing me. I primarily listen to classical, jazz and other acoustic music and clarity and detai is prioirty number one. I have a chord mojo and I really do not like the bass it brings to the Andros. Treble and mids are more important to me than bass. For reference, my over the ear setup is a Woo Audio WA8 with HD800s and it is perfect. I had the HD800 in the past and while I loved the highs and did not find them fatiguing the WA8 tubes softened things just a bit and made them nearly perfect. I don't want prominent bass but with the HD800 there were some jazz tracks where bass was clearly missing. The HD800s added just enough to make it perfect. The Andros actually sound pefect with the WA8 but there is some background noise when you turn it up and I'm looking for portable.

So if mids, highs and clarity are my priority, which should I choose and should I use balanced or SE? I'd rather have two little bass than too much.

Also, please provide a suggestion on where to get (and which one to get) a balanced cable. I am new to IEM's so I'm shopping a bit blind. My HD800s came with a balanced cable that I have not used since I do not have a balanced amp..

Thanks in advance.

 

You can buy balanced cables from ALO Audio. I believe you could even send your existing cable to them and pay them to swap out the jack from SE to balanced. Not sure about that though. Am going to send an email and ask in the near future, as I approach purchasing the Ref8 cable.

 

Get a ZX2, disable the sound processing apps, and run it SE.

 

I'll post a guide this weekend or somewhere around then. But honestly, I think you should only root it if you are unhappy with the stock interface (too Android-y, and not enough Walkman-nous for me) and you want to be able to leave the device to itself (minimal interaction every time you have to power-cycle the thing). Otherwise, I'd think that if you're happy with stock, you might as well stick with stock.

Saved you the trouble. Asked ALO if I could send my stock Litz cable in to replace the jack since it's been sitting there as Ref 8 gets 100% usage for me... (plays well both with ZX2 SE and with my iPhone 6+, much less bright than stock Litz).

This was the response:



Ah well, I guess I could also get off my arse, buy a connector and do it myself. Honestly, can't be that much worse than what I had to do for GO2A, can it?

Oh, and for those who are wondering.

Ref 8 + ZX2 + Andro = tube amp sound, smooth and relaxed but sometimes can be a bit too... boring? Technicality actually slightly better than Litz at digging into the recording and revealing more depth.

Litz + ZX2 + Andro = solid state sound, "almost" neutral (save for ZX2's insane bass impact) but somewhat zingy/zippy/peaky in the treble, it's also somewhat flatter sounding than Ref 8 but I like what it does to the bass (faster sounding to me).

I think Litz with TRRS might just be "good enough" if TRRS does what I think it does (got to hear it briefly with @brencho's setup). I actually prefer the feel of Litz to Ref 8. Litz is softer and easier to coil up, do stuffs with, etc... Ref 8 is just too stiff, but Ref 8 to me is clearly the better cable technically. If only it was more comfy for portable use.

 

for those not happy with a) spc "sound", b) memory wire, c) lack of termination options...

NocturnaL cables, Effect Audio or PW Audio, all have similar priced alternatives and reasonable lead times (none of that 4-14 weeks business). I'm currently using Effect Audio Eros 2+ which to my ears are more refined and controlled compared to the Litz, along with being as soft as the litz and memory cable free.

 

@Bill-P ZX2 root guide/detail would be interesting
Looking forward to it!

 

It looks like disabling all sound processing within the android UI in the ZX2 enables a sound that is NOT Sony's signature bloomy, lush, laid back, warm, organic crap when paired WITH Andros. The WM1A direct sound function is a bit of a misnomer. It is still dark, dull and warm unbalanced.

Luckily android processes can be decapitated at their roots within ZX2. Looking forward to listening to a ZX2 with the Andros, maybe just maybe I'll have my portable Utopia experience I am searching for.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. It sounds like the ZX2 is the top recomendation with it's closer to neutral sound. I was just re-reading the thread and one other variable came to mind. I love the andros but they are not my primary earphones since I can not be isolated from external noise in many situations, work included. I use other DAC/AMPs with my other ears and can only justify the expense of a DAP if it becomes part of my daily rig.

I've never owned a DAP before but assume the logic is the same. If I bypass the DAC and simply use it as a source playing through other DAC / AMPs, will there be any difference in sound signature / quality between the ZX2 and WMA1? I would assume it would the sound would be the same, correct?

 

The ZX2 actually is my first Android device that's not rooted. And it's annoying as hell not being able to use some root apps I'm used to with my devices.

Really looking forward to your guide.


BTW, Sorry if I miss something that's already discussed in this thread, but I'm not sure where you read that the ZX2 has a balanced output, because all websites I read say it's not true balanced.

Even in this interview it's said to have a seperate ground signal, but it's not really balanced. I think I also once read on innerfidelity that balanced cables work, but it won't really be balanced.

 

You can't send the bitstream from the ZX2 to another DAC. You can plug it into an external amp but the Andros don't need additional amping.

To be honest it sounds like the Andros may not be for you. Many of us have found that it's worth the expense of the Andros and a dedicated DAP for it, but it sounds like you want IEMs that play better with existing elements of your system. Perhaps you should check out shotgunshane's IEM thread and look for an alternative that plays better with a wider range of components.

 

You can use the ZX2 as a transport.

 

Merrick - I'm pleased with the Andros with my primary amp (Woo WA8) and have no intentions of moving to a different IEM. What I'm trying to do is find the best sounding ultra portable solution that sounds better than simply using my iphone SE. I don't like the pairing with my existing mojo and that still doesn't count as ultra portable so a DAP is likely the best answer. However, I'll sleep better and can justify the expense if I can also use the DAP with the rest of system. I use the andros roughly 30% of the time. Using the DAP 100% of the time would help.

 

I see what you're saying, but I still think you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. A DAP as a source for a desktop system is not a good long term solution IMO, but no desktop system is optimized for the Andros.

Oh really? I seem to recall a lot of people here saying the ZX2 cannot do that.

 

Yeah, no, it's not truly balanced. That's why I'm trying to be "politically correct" by calling it TRRS.

But "balanced" is really just a way of saying "left and right signals are completely separated." In theory, separate grounds for left and right channels (basically what Sony is doing, plus what some EC amps do) should achieve "almost" the same effect anyway. But that's just in theory. I still need to try it to tell.

 

Merrick - I don't see it as a square peg in a round hole if used for transport leveraging a digital out signal. I do not technically have a desktop system but from a file storage standpoint the concepts should be the same. Everything i have is portable/transportable since I listen to music in my home office, bedroom, patio and I bring most of it with me when I travel each week. I use Tidal through my MAC or iphone SE and have some DSD downloads on my MAC. In my mind, digital is digital whether it's on my MAC or on a DAP and the magic happens within the DAC, be that inside of an integrated system like a DAP or a stand alone system. Maybe the sony doesn't do it. I need to investigate further but I assumed people used DAPs as a device to transport files as well. None of my friends are into audio so I'm only going on what I see on line but ASSuMEd some DAPs had a digital out you could plug into an external DAC/AMP just like you do with your computer or iPhone. It would be nice to have something smaller than my MAC to play from even with my mojo or hugo that handled DSD better than my iphone.

My point was to use the DAP that gets the most out of the Andros while also using it as a transport / file consolidator I coud use with other compenents too, with or without the Andros. I have HD800S, iSINE 20's and just receive a pair of Audeze LCDi4's today which will benefit from an amp while on the road even though they could play directly from a DAP.

I'll find an answer on DAPs that may or may not work. Just explaining my original point better here.

 

FYI.. I've had a whopping 20 mins with it since it arrived in the mail but the IEMatch makes a huge difference when plugged into the Mojo. Playing DSD files right now I'm not hearing any loss of detail but it's hard to A/B test them when the change in volume between with and without and others may have more refined hearing. If you don't already have a mojo I wouldn't rush out and get one for the Andros since there could be better pairings but if you already have one this $50 add-on is a vast improvement. The Hugo 2 arrived as well and is charging. I'll get some time with it tonight if anyone is interested in pairing impressions.

 

IEMatch won't necessarily "deaden" the sound of the device it's plugged into, save for the exception of devices that are already good enough with Andro (like iPhone, ZX2 or AK120). I think... if you're already happy with it as a solution, then you should stick with it then.

As for your DAP quest, here are my final thoughts on Sony ZX2 vs Astell & Kern AK120, and I hope this will provide some insight for you as well.

The short of it is: each DAP has its own advantages over the other.

AK120 has the following things that ZX2 doesn't: (note, I'm not counting modded units as mine is stock)
1. Optical audio input <- works with everything, essentially turns it into an external DAC/amp
2. Optical audio output <- also works with everything, essentially turns it into an optical transport
3. USB DAC function <- meaning it theoretically should work as a USB DAC/amp as well but I've never been able to get this working for whatever reason
4. A stupidly simple no-nonsense music-only interface. But it could be too "stupid" from time to time as it's extremely limiting and yet so very dictatorial at the same time (you are forced to put up with what iRiver thinks is "best" for you, with no say in the matter). Still, it's far simpler than what ZX2 has at stock.
5. Could be a minor thing for now, but AK120 has replaceable battery. I may need to replace mine some time soon.
6. Actually a minor thing but... the built-in EQ is surprisingly very decent. It's not subtracting too much from details and transient, and it "just works."
7. More output power. I've opened up my AK120 and I'm guessing this is as a result of a fully discrete amp section that harnesses all of the power it could from the battery. Amazing that they could stuff that into such a small thing.

ZX2 has the following things that AK120 doesn't:
1. An optimally tweaked amplifier section for low noise, clean signal output into IEMs, it'll come through once software fuckery is gone. All Android apps on ZX2 sound more "special" than when they are on some other devices. I've been able to confirm this with IEMs other than Andro, so it's not just a case of ZX2 being optimal for Andro. It's really just a superbly good music player. Too bad Sony decided to f**k with the software at stock. Unfucking the software makes it the optimal solution for most of my portable/transportable gears. I wrote a lot on this because it can't be stressed enough just how good ZX2 without Sound Adjustment really is. I think it's easily the best portable audio device I have heard to date in this form. AK120 is "close" but no cigar. ZX2 still provides far better detail retrieval and refinement to my ears. (read: difference between 90% and 95% when I say "far")
2. A far more responsive interface. It just has a far more powerful microcomputer inside.
3. Versatility of Android, that means the ability to change default music player, tweak around the system and the interface to your liking, and availability of streaming services (at least as long as Android 4.2 is still supported).
4. WIFI support so... uh... you can browse the web with it? <- stupid for a music player IMO. But seriously, I'm guessing when there's a protocol for wireless WIFI music transfer to a pair of wireless headphone, this could be more appealing than Bluetooth. But on that note, ZX2 supports LDAC via Bluetooth, so even its Bluetooth support is better than AK120. I still need to try LDAC to tell how good it is, but any improvement over standard Bluetooth is a major improvement IMO.
5. Battery is not replaceable but easily lasts several days. AK120 lasts like 1 day top for me now. (I just listen to music a lot and for long stretches of time)

As far as sound is concerned... here are my thoughts after testing both AK120 and ZX2 for a while: (you can pretty much guess the reason why I've ordered things the following way, too)

ZX2 with Sound Adjustments (SA) on is somewhat "weird" to me. It's tubby, cloudy, hissy, and treble is a bit on the sharp side to my ears. But the sharpness happens at a fairly high frequency that doesn't activate with Andro even with the stock LItz cable, so it's okay with Andro in this form. For Noble X or say, my EMU PH, the treble peak is very apparent and it annoys me. Also ZX2 in this form doesn't dig too much deeper into the music. But past all that, bass impact and weight is actually very decent here. If only tightness also follows. Basically: ZX2 w/ SA = bass heavy, kinda dark up top and yet quite sharp. Somewhat V-shaped sounding. If I have to grade this, it would be about 8.5/10.

AK120 stock is actually very "okay" with Andro, and ranges anywhere from "decent" to "good" with my Noble X and EMU PH. Also it actually plays nice with T50RP as well, pretty impressive considering the size and power output. ZX2 doesn't like T50RP (*note: more on this later). The overall sound has the typical AK sound of being warm and blankety (on top of the usual Wolfson signature, by the way) but with decent "snap" and air. It's a bit too "soft" or "velvety" sometimes, but it works well with acoustic, slow, vocal-focused music. Bass is a bit tubby and blurry, and really isn't anything to write about. Basically: AK120 = warm, velvety sound with decent snap and air but transient is a bit "meh." Kinda pairs well with Andro for vocals, though, since I think Andro has exaggerated transient edge. Details seem to be on par with ZX2 w/ SA. If I'm grading this, it would be about 9/10, simply on the merits of it doing justice to vocals.

AK120 with some cap mods: mentioning this because I just did this out of boredom. This is actually quite decent. Keeps stock sound but with cleaner and more defined bass. Still not as impactful/weighty as ZX2 but at least it's not a blob of... something like before anymore. Also more soundstage cues come out as a result, I think. Overall a pretty decent improvement. I didn't mess with OI or anything else like that. Just bypassed some caps inside. I'd imagine more extensive modifications like Mezzo or RWA may do something different. I love the stock vocal-focused sound of AK120, so this is just an excuse for me to use AK120 a bit more since... ZX2 w/o SA is now occupying most of my listening time. Now a 9.25/10.

ZX2 without Sound Adjustments (SA) is just... perfect IMO. Darkness gone. Air galore. Treble is significantly more relaxed, and in fact, it's actually even more relaxed than AK120 depending on the track (wow!). AK120 can only match treble smoothness with EQ here. Midrange is clean and clear, with very charming warmth added to it very reminiscent of AK120 and Wolfson but it's not as boomy/blurry. Bass is still impactful and weighty but is very tight, well-layered, textured, and satisfying now. ZX2 also digs much deeper into the soundscape, and I think I'm probably hearing "most" of what could be pulled out of certain recordings already. I don't even hear a lot of these details with my desktop setup (though I do actually get "hints" of certain things after hearing them on Andro). Absolutely amazing and perfect. I don't need EQ with Andro, Noble X, or PH when paired with this setup. In fact, Noble X + ZX2 w/o SA is surprisingly close to Andro + AK120 (this was partially why I chose to mod AK120). Grade? 9.9/10. I'll leave 10/10 for that setup that has zero hiss with Andro, though ZX2 w/o SA doesn't really hiss all that much. Also, disabling SA somehow allows for more volume as well (huh...) on ZX2, so ZX2 actually ends up being a bit louder for me. Both ZX2 and AK120 are somewhat comparable in power delivery now. T50RP is happy with both.

Also tonal balance comparison between cable types:
Litz:
iPhone 6+ = whyyyyyyyyyyy!? I'd honestly just take HD800 + O2/ODAC over this
ZX2 w/ SA = actually surprisingly neutral-ish, just a bit dark and somewhat sharp but not annoying
AK120 stock = thin and soft bass but also surprisingly neutral-ish, vocal bloom helps mask sharpness but it's still somewhat audible
AK120 cap mod = even thinner, somewhat... "eww" but "okay" with EQ. Still far better than iPhone 6+
ZX2 w/o SA = very very nice, just a "hint" of sharpness left. In fact, I'm even wondering if swapping cables is even worth it in this case (but maybe it is worth it for TRRS, we'll see)

Ref 8:
iPhone 6+ = okay, more bearable, less bad, at least better than DT990 + O2/ODAC, but now the cloudy bass comes out
ZX2 w/ Ref 8 = less sharp, but darkness accentuated and now it sounds a bit cloudy but not as gooey as iPhone 6+
AK120 stock = not bad, for those who like using HD650 on Bottlehead Crack with warm tubes like Mullard, RCA, Sylvania, etc...
AK120 cap mod = like Bottlehead Crack + HD650 + replace the Mullard tube with something slightly brighter, very decent now, need EQ to reduce low mid warmth (@Serious knows what I'm talking about here)
ZX2 w/o SA = perfect. Basically sounds like Crack was replaced by something nicer like an EC Zana Deux. Clarity, soundstage, tightness, smoothness with just a hint of warmth/bloom to give body to the sound, basically too awesome!

Will get to try TRRS with ZX2 next. But for now, my favorite setup is ZX2 + Ref 8 + Andro, and 2nd favorite is AK120 + Ref 8 + Andro, but only because I can use AK120 as a DAC/amp to use Andro with my computer (watch Youtube and videos and such). Otherwise I pick ZX2 most of the time.

 

The wifi support is for streaming services, downloading apps, and updating apps.

 

You were in the linked thread.