Coffee: we drink it or we get angry.

Discussion in 'Food and Drink' started by Jeb, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    He meant that someone like us would be faster around a racetrack on a race-prepped modified Tesla as opposed to a stock Tesla.

    What we meant is that Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel, or some crazy fearless redneck could beat us around the track with a stock Tesla while we drove race-prepped Teslas. Heck, they could probably beat us with Camrys.
     
  2. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    The problem is, some of those high end espresso makers do require some experience to use.

    With time and experiense one can get pretty good espresso drinks either way (ECMP50 or some random kilo-buck 4-boiler 50-way solenoid silver alloy pope blessed machine). There are some automatic machines. Many folks swear by the Nespresso. But almost none of the pro espresso machines mentioned have the Easy-Button.
     
  3. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Anyways guys. Proly got upset after looking at that ECMP50 link from that coffee forum (EDIT: that and CNET and almost all random miss-info I read around).

    I'll post some coffee pics later today.

    BTW, I do have a Bodum French Press, a Bialetti 3-cup stove Mokka pot, a random drip, a cold brew contraction, and so forth. None will do proper espresso with crema the way a proper espresso machine will. The Po'Boy ECMP50 is a proper espresso machine, and it will. They do good the type of coffee they are meant to produce. Furthermore, I did experiment with a 3.5 bar cheap "espresso maker", and I threw that shit to the trash. I consider the ECMP50 or similar a bare minimum to get the job done.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  4. winders

    winders boomer

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    That was what I was getting at. If you get a machine like the one I posted a photo of, you had better be prepared for a new hobby because you need to learn all the whys and wherefores of espresso making. Then you need to practice so your technique becomes consistent. Then you can start figuring out how what you do changes the flavor profile of the espresso. That's when you can really start to try different espresso coffee beans and really experience the different flavors.

    Just like fast lap times, consistency in process and execution is key.

    Again be prepared for espresso making to become a hobby.
     
  5. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    A proper espresso shot needs both the right temperature and pressure. A cheap 15 or so bar machine such as the ECMP50 can do it (f**k you CNET!)

    One thing I like about these types of machines is the steam. It makes wonderful chocolate and vanilla drinks for the kids. Not to mention a proper Americano and options are possible.

    The closest thing to an espresso machine is probably the Mokka pot. It does have some of the strong flavor to it. But it's hard to get crema out of it. The Brikka probably can do some, but it's not quite there.
     
  6. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I corrected my comment and made it a bit less ambiguous:

    "The Po'Boy ECMP50 is a proper espresso machine, and it will" ... produce proper crema.

    And yes. It can become a new hobby, and practice and technique make a difference.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  7. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Alright guys. Pics.

    This was in the morning and I call it the butterfly:
    IMG_7439_small.jpg

    This was a few minutes ago, and I call it the man-seed:
    IMG_7455_small.jpg
     
  8. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Here the ECMP50 is pulling tonite's espresso.

    Start:
    IMG_7448_small.jpg

    End:
    IMG_7453_small.jpg

    And here is the frothed milk that together with the above became man-seed:
    IMG_7445_small.jpg
     
  9. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Let me clarify the back story. I mentioned a few years back about inheriting my bro-in-law's Silvia and Rocky combo which were well over 12 years old at the time. I carried them from Montreal to Taipei in a suitcase, thoroughly cleaned them up, put new burrs in the Rocky, learned how to "surf", and was making reasonable espressos in short time. I'd tried using a steam wand in the past and found it really difficult. Since we already had an Aeroccino to go with the Nescrappo™ machine my wife insisted on buying, I cbf'd to even bother trying to make foam with the Silvia and have been content with macrofoam lattes. Mouth feel is definitely lacking but the flavour is good enough, given I don't have to go to all the hassle of frothing milk. The wife always wants her weekend morning coffee NOW!!!

    In July, I upgraded to the Eureka Mignon Specialità. I converted the hopper to something easier for single dosing using a pill bottle and go between 18 and 18.5 grams for a double, depending on the beans. I shoot for around 5 seconds for the first drops to appear, then 20-25 seconds total to pull 1.5 oz while watching for blonding.
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...k-it-or-we-get-angry.1142/page-37#post-263938

    So that's the background ...

    On my recent trip to Montreal, I finally got to check out my BIL's new machine. This is what I described above. I wasn't about to start messing with his grind settings, but I played around with the dosing to try and get a decent shot. He doesn't have a scale, so it was all rough eyeballing. No naked portafilter either, which I use at home all the time to check for channeling and enjoy the stream of tiger stripes when I get it right. They prefer a tangier flavour and use a fairly light roast, so that was another contributing factor to my not liking the resulting coffee.

    As for making foam, I figured I'd have a better chance with the R58's big dual boilers and gave it several goes for "shits and giggles" as people say (I hate that saying). All I could remember at the time was to hold the tip just below the surface, and I was doing it in the cup rather than a chilled jug, so now I know it was doomed to fail from the start. Anyway, I don't think I'll bother with making proper microfoam until if/when I get a bigger machine with more thermal capacity. And I'm retired so I have more time to f**k around with it.

    I'm thinking about modding the Silvia with a PID or whatever, but not sure if it's worth it on such an old machine.

    At work I use a 2-cup basket in a 1-cup stainless steel Bialetti moka pot on an induction hotplate and IKEA PRODUKT frother in microwaved milk to make pseudo American-style lattes.

    Here's a rerun of an early pull after I got the Specialità set up properly.


    I didn't need that image, now burned into my retina (see current avatar) ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  10. DigMe

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    @ultrabike.. Bro.. You gotta bring it down a notch or we're gonna have to rename this thread "we drink it AND we get angry." :p

    I've been accused of being a coffee snob before but I contend that I'm a coffee relativist - If you're happy with what you're drinking then awesome. I'm not gonna try to put my preferences on you. Regarding the crema from your machine though (and I share this fact without judgment) machines with pressurized portafilters artificially create a reproduction of the crema you find in a quality nonpressurized machine by shooting air into the portafilter during the pull. This has the advantage of creating crema regardless of how fresh the coffee is or how good the grinder is. It's why you find them on all the cheap machines because owners of these machines are generally less likely to invest in fresh roasted beans and a good grinder. In a nonpressurized machine this is created by a reaction between the CO2, the coffee and the pressure. I feel that I personally notice a difference in feel between the former and the latter. Like I said, no judgment.. It is what it is. Let's drink coffee and not be angry. :)
     
  11. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I thought crema was made up of CO2 micro-bubbles regardless of whether a pressurized or a non-pressurized basket is used. I don't think a pressurized basket yields "fake" crema. I do feel that if the coffee beans are crap, then crema or no crema, the results are probably going to be crap.

    Consider this link:
    http://resources.urnex.com/blog/what-is-crema-and-what-does-it-say-about-your-espresso

    I feel that for latte art at least, coffee crema is nice. It's eye candy. But as the Urnex guys said, the quality, freshness, grind, and roast of the beans proly matter more once you have the machine to do the job. It makes sense to me.

    I'm not really all that mad, though I was disappointed at the responses some people get at random forums when an affordable machine was mentioned. It's not only CNET and coffeegeek. Look at this:



    Look at the comments:

    "Dude with the beard is snobby d-bag."

    "how you gonna be all snobby then mention the fast food of coffee "

    "I used a $15 hand grinder, got a great consistency, used this machine, got a great cup of espresso. I work at a Starbucks, and I have drank the plain espresso shots from both the machine I use at work and the machine I have on my counter. My only complaint is that the steam nozzle on this machine doesn't come out very far and can be a bit tricky at times to use since it's not as powerful as the one I use at work. As far as the taste and quality of the cup, this is more than fine for the price, being a college student who can't afford to put a boiler in my house to make an industrial grade cup of espresso."

    I actually found the whole thing comical.

    BTW, About the video. The beard dude should have actually compacted the grounds harder for the first shot. He had little crema, and the shot was pulled too fast IMO. Also the plastic thingy on the steamer is removable.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  12. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    These videos were IMO pretty good too:

    Blind test or not, she nailed the challenge!


    Krups XP5280 (which looks and sounds like a different presentation of the ECMP50) vs Rocket Giotto Evo V2. Grind does matter either way it seems.


    I like Gail :)

    EDIT: And BTW. Again. Not mad. At least no more. I said my peace.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  13. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    Dont have time for much response here right now but the difference in the crema re:CO2 is that the pressurized chamber is more bubbles created by forced air than CO2.
     
  14. winders

    winders boomer

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    Anyone try the Jura S8?
     
  15. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Haven't watched these yet (heading home from work), but Gail is cool! I've learned a lot from her videos.


    Edit: Finally watched on a big screen rather than mostly listening during the commute yesterday. Classic Gail trying to decide which was more important: grinder or machine.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  16. Syzygy

    Syzygy Friend

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    Not sure I'd want to be drinking "man seed". Or telling people that I am.
     
  17. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    LOL! I did another one that looked better and less aroused than that.

    I read about non-pressurized baskets per @DigMe, and purchased a 51" non-pressurized basket that may fit the ECMP50 portafilter. Removal of the plastic thingy on the porta filter is a piece of cake. Got inspired by this:



    I don't think I will try to hacksaw the portafilter, as done in the video above. but I will try the non-pressrized approach ASAP and see what the fuzz is all about.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  18. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Sorry for the late reply.

    A strong French au Lait still relies on the espresso. Every coffee from a machine mind you starts with a basic espresso. When I go to a coffee place and their basic espresso is not good, they will not get my money. The barista can look like George Clooney, the espresso first has to be good. I will smell it first because I can, simple as that.

    I might come across as fanatic. Thing is when I was drilled to make professional coffees I had to perfect my espressos and regular black coffees until they trusted me with lattés, latté macchiatos and cappuccinos.

    I generally do not trust Starbucks and usually order their filter coffee (which is quite good i.m.o.).

    Reminds me of Hajime No Ippo. Before you can box you first need to have a clean technique to strike, the simple jab. In fencing you learn the same thing. Smooth execution of a basic technique comes first. It is the cornerstone of everything you do that follows.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  19. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Recently, I prefer my creations to start from a ristretto or two.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Sometimes I think the coffee stuff has become too much like modern Taiwanese Kung-Fu style tea preparation where bored housewives work with one too many fancy accoutrements. Might have already mentioned this before, but my grandfather taught me how to make tea for him, with less than a fourth of the gadgets and half the procedures that the ladies use today. It still comes down to Kung-Fu, which really means "skill acquired through practice" (Kung-Fu does not mean martial arts.)

    So I have an honest question. I roast my own coffee beans and drink my coffee black. You know, I'm one of those murderous kinds of coffee drinkers so to speak, at least this is what I heard at my prior job as a bank auditor - that the serious auditors always drink their coffee black: "oh, you are one of those kind".

    What's up with the fancy coffee bean grinders? I still use my $10 Braun coffee bean grinder that I got from Target 15 years ago. My procedure is to grind the beans into a fine powder. I won't hold the thing down, but I will grind for a few seconds, rest, shake, grind, rest, shake, etc. The resting is to ensure I don't cook the beans. The shaking is to ensure a consistent grind. I then put the fine powder into a drip cone with an unbleached filter using water at 208F. If I have distilled water, I will use it. If not, I will use tap water. On occasion, for the most superior results, I will use a fancy primitive vacuum brewer, but usually, this is way too much work.

    I've tried larger grounds, but it always turns out that I prefer the fine powder. Am I missing something without buying a fancy grinder?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019

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