Dangerous Music Convert-2 DAC Review - Stream of Consciousness

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    @toddrhodes How did you manage the "hot" output from DM2 to your preamp vs. Yggdrasil?
     
  2. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Friend

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    I've used it into my Saga via the Jensen 1:1 transformers and now directly into a Freya S. Despite it being so hot, I don't find it to be overly so. Gain and ultimately volume level are comfortable at about the same spots as Yggdrasil was with Jensen > Saga, and same with DM2 > Saga or DM2 > Freya. If I use the -18 setting it's obviously louder but I've not heard any appreciable difference in imaging or SQ between those mods on DM2. So, I stick with -14 for a silly reason - it helps keep me a little bit away from the middle detent in these Schiit volume controls, the one with the most audible change and relay activation. -18 on a lot of material puts me right there for loud but not too loud listening, if that makes sense.

    And I'm using Freya S in 4X mode which I do have to say, I have a slight preference for versus Freya 1X. I haven't really dug into the difference in those modes, however.

    So I guess my answer is that I don't really notice the additional gain of DM2 over Yggdrasil 2A balanced out like I thought I might.
     
  3. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    That's really good to know, because the impression I was under from reading various other posts (here and elsewhere) was that pro dacs presented a new set of "problems" compared to conventional HiFi variants.
     
  4. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Friend

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    I do believe there are probably some components that would not handle those outputs well but unless I'm just completely overlooking something, I've had no issues to speak of. I can't say I've ever heard a scenario where outputs are "too hot" but I would expect either a component failure at that point, or some sort of harshness or clipping on the part of the preamp. Just guessing, but so far I've had none of that business :)
     
  5. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Any HE-6 owners have/had this DAC in their chain?

    When I read impressions folks have given, the descriptions seem to match up with the HE-6's strengths: the visceral, tactile and powerful nature of how sound is presented (impact, speed). Tight and well controlled bass. Vividly transparent. Natural transients and timbre. Spacious imaging related to headstage.

    On paper this DAC looks like the perfect match to the HE-6. Or does it take all of those strengths and extend them to the point where it introduces too much listening fatigue?

    I don't like a laid back sound, but one that grabs me by the balls. Most of my music library is pop music, and from impressions here the Convert-2 is a bit more suited than the Schiit offerings I'm looking at. I probably don't have the power amp to take advantage of it though (Vidar).

    Still curious if HE-6 owners would mind posting up their impressions on this DAC. Does look like the ideal match, I know Jozurr thinks its a great pairing.
     
  6. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Friend

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    So my "new" CD transport arrived today. It's a Sonic Frontiers SFT-1 with the upgraded Neutrino V2 master clock from NewClassD. Got it from PartsConnexion.

    This is a really nice pairing, so far, with DM2. I actually have the master clock turned off now. Not for any major sonic pro or con, though I will say Neutrino does seem to sound a tiny bit more natural and images just fractionally better to my ears, but it's incredibly close. Says a lot for the DM2 actually, but at least now with a competent clock on the other end, I can take advantage of auto rate switching when my AES2PIE hat comes in. Now I do think the DM2 master mode will be more beneficial from that unit, but unless it is just substantially superior, I'll leave it off in favor of the automatic rate lock.

    The TASCAM I had was producing some faint artifacts during playback. I hoped it was just the player itself and it seems like it was. In fact there's a section of the beginning of Track 5 on Dave Matthews - Some Devil (say what you will for the music, the production on this is excellent, if not a little compressed) that through the Tascam sounded like noise or artifacts where through the SFT-1 it sounds like an actual instrument and is absolutely clearly defined. It's subtle and well recessed in the soundstage, but the difference is immediate. I just listened to this last night as well, so it's an easy bit of low-hanging fruit.

    Not that I didn't think it would, but it's nice to hear the DM2 scale with better sources. I really, really like this DAC. And I'm happy to report that at no point has it ever become fatiguing or overdone, as I've acclimated to it.
     
  7. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    Im running v1 neutrino on an sft-1 and the master clock from the dm2 is marginally better (slightly more incisive and quicker). I can get a V2 installed locally pretty cheap but to really beat the hell out of the sft-1 you need to spend some pretty serious $$
     
  8. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    I run the DMC2 at -14dBFS into a Jensen Isomax 1:1 trafo (balanced in). I take the RCA outs into the Schitt Sys and then into my power amp (either an Odyssey Khartago or a Firstwatt clone, depending on my mood) through speaker taps into the HE 6. My HE 6 has no grilles and I have replaced the stock pads with the Mr. Speakers Ether C angled ear-pads (shoutout to @cskippy). I am a little nervous about the blutack mod so did not do that. My friend was here last weekend and was astounded at the smoothness of the treble. The HE 6 does everything right and the slam and tactility are amazingly good, especially for my genre of music, i.e. classic rock and hard rock.
     
  9. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Friend

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    Having listened a little more and giving it some time, I switched back to the DM2 clock as well. Neutrino is good but it does seem sluggish or maybe veiled? Don't know but electronic music and metal both "wake up" a bit using the DM2 clock.
     
  10. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    @Xecuter you need a balanced pre or monitor controller. Mackie and JBL passive ones are cheap. Yeah they will degrade the sound a bit but they’re better than nothing and are just passive pots you can buy anywhere. Functionality > sound anyway. Gold point has a passive attenuator xlr box you might want but it is expensive.

    Drawmer is good for cheap active controller but the cheap ones are noticeably cheaped out in build versus the expensive ones.

    Otherwise you could can stay dangerous for similar analog design and just feed the convert 2 into a source or a monitor st pretend like you’re on a space ship but you’ll be paying for functionality you’ll never use.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
  11. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    Psalm, I'm intrigued. I have the DM Source. Are you suggesting the chain will then be my Mac Mini > Convert 2 > Source > HP?
     
  12. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    You could try it as a headamp in a pinch. I was thinking more just use the source as a powered analog pre to two sets of speakers if you wanted to keep the dangerous analog sound intact for maximum ocd over longer cable runs. of course that is pretty much massively overpriced, the source still has a pot, and still has limited functionality (where's the mono button or precise trims for the speaker outs?) for the price so I wouldn't recommend it unless you already have a source lying around and you like the sound better than other stuff.
     
  13. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Friend

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    Quoting myself here because I think this observation was ill-conceived. Since switching back to my OG Saga, I'm finding that, basically, I don't hear a difference between the DM2 clock and the Neutrino clock. If anything, I get a bit more depth and believable imaging out of the Neutrino. I think the sluggishness or veil I was hearing was from the Freya S operating in SE mode. Using either clock but with the Saga instead of Freya S, I find the sound far more engaging and dynamic. I also added a few foam diffusers between my speakers on the front wall and the clarity, the detail I'm hearing now is excellent. I'm listening to Hand. Cannot. Erase on CD and I'm taken aback, honestly.
     
  14. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Hey guys, I was chatting with @Jozurr via PM regarding his HE-6 setup and an upgrade path, but he suggested I should ask my questions in this public thread for better options.

    Or if I'm going batshit-crazy-don't-know-WTF-I'm-doing-here-step-away-from-the-edge setup.

    I have a few concerns regarding the Convert-2's hot outputs (atomicbob posted measurement outputs of +22dBu with no trim engaged @ 9.76 Vrms), the power of monoblock Vidars and amount of gain, and a pre-amp.

    I placed an order last night for the Convert-2 (it might be two weeks before I get it as it wasn't in stock, I'll post pictures and impressions when I do).

    I also recently got a second Vidar to run my speakers in a monoblock configuration, and I know this would be ridiculously overkill for the HE-6s, but since I already have the amps I figured I could try it and I wouldn't need any kind of balanced-to-unbalanced converter box for a single Vidar, like a Jensen Iso-Max.

    The chain is going to be PC/USB -> Convert-2 -> JBL Nano Patch -> Monoblock Vidars -> HE-6 (or for speakers my Emotiva T2s)

    I've seen this Nano Patch used in a few other setups on this board and it's cheap, but Jozurr thinks this will degrade performance. He suggested I look into a Goldpoint pre-amp, preferably one that has a 47 stepped attenuation, so the SA1X-47.

    I joked with him that I was worried I might need a microscope to adjust the volume knob on the Nano Patch for this system.

    He also suggested I step up to a First Watt J2 eventually, but I would like to stick with the monoblock Vidars for awhile since I already have them.

    Anyway, am I running the risk of blowing up my headphones (or even my speakers) with this chain? Do I have any bottlenecks here? I really love the Vidars, especially that bass (and I hate that I'm a basshead).

    I assume I would have to engage the internal input trim of the Convert-2 to lower the voltage, but I'm a total noob here. I know what I want in sound but just not sure how to go into properly setting everything up. I've read the ideal performance from the DAC is Master Clock mode enabled and bypass the volume control knob.

    Please call me out on my sanity if what I'm doing here makes no sense.

    Thanks,
    Rob
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  15. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    @treboR :

    I've had the Convert 2 for quite some time now. I can go directly to the balanced inputs of my SPL Phonitor 2 without any concerns about the Convert 2's hot outputs. However, IME, I've always found it safer to use the Jensen Iso-max to tame the DAC's outputs into any other amp (including amps that have a balanced input). For example, I have the Odyssey Khartago power amp that I run through the Sys for the HE 6 (yeah, just for that HP). My other preamp is a Khozmo but I prefer the Sys. Anyway, I go from the DAC to the Jensen trafo (mine is the 1: 1 transformer not the 4:1) to the Sys to the Odyssey. I have the Convert 2 on Master Clock mode and have the volume pot bypassed.

    Now, I also wrote to Schitt some time ago whether the Freya (I wanted to buy it for its balanced inputs) would accept hot outputs and the answer from Alex was "I asked Jason and he said there is "no practical limit, cannot be overloaded." Not being a techie, I decided to play it safe with the Jensen.

    That;s my experience. Trust it helps.

    Best
     
  16. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    I can confirm it works with the Freya as that's how I have it set up - DM C2 to Freya, which then feeds my Cavalli LAu. You can also use the Freya on tube buffer mode to help tame the C2 a bit and voice it more to your liking, or bypass the tube and go passive or use the ss buffer - many options! Cheers
     
  17. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    why do you believe the Nano Patch potentiometer will produce any better results lowering output levels than the Convert-2 internal potentiometer?

    One big issue with potentiometers is resistance value matching between two channels. All potentiometers will have some degree of channel balance issues. The Goldpoint Stepped Attenuator employs precision resistors and a switch, providing laboratory reference level performance.

    Another issue is choice of potentiometer value which forms a low pass filter when combined with cable capacitance. Unless long runs of high capacitance per meter cables are used, this shouldn't be much of an issue.
     
  18. Jozurr

    Jozurr Facebook Friend

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    That was one of the things I mentioned to him as well, that the JBL nano patch is not going to be better off than the volume control on the C2 and a goldpoint would be recommended instead. I also would not recommend adding something like freya to chain which isn't a very transparent preamp. I'd think just trimming the volume in the C2 volume control works better than adding more non-transparent preamps into the mix. My comment about asking for recommendations was based on getting recommendation for a more transparent/better preamp than the goldpoint at that price point, which I'm not personally aware of.
     
  19. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    I wrongly assumed that the volume control on the Convert-2 degraded sound quality to such a degree where that should be bypassed for an external pre-amp. The Nano Patch was the cheapest solution I could find that has balanced in/out and I've seen it used on a few systems here, so I assumed it was transparent enough, even though a potentiometer has its own channel balance issues as you said.

    But when I review the measurements you did on the Convert-2's internal trim (https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...rt-2-technical-measurements.7785/#post-255369), am I right that the channel imbalance using its pot is so slight to not be concerned about it? Your Goldpoint had the best performance, but I wonder if it's so crucial enough to spend around $600 on it. If it's worth the difference, I'll get it.

    Again I may have made the wrong interpretation from various posts here that the sound quality worsened having the internal trim engaged and I would be better off having an external volume control solution.

    Thanks atomicbob for this information, and your measurements as well. I don't plan on long runs, probably 3ft cables or up to 6ft cables.
     
  20. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    @Vtory - Have been playing with my CV2 and I think I've found a way around both of your issues (although not sure if you've already moved on).

    I bought a simple 75-ohm BNC cable and connected my Singxer SU-1's word-clock out* to the CV2's word-clock in and it's taken care of both of these issues! You can then use the "External" mode and it stops the blinking light from "Master" mode. At the same time you can leave the rate select in "auto" and it will adjust the freq rate for you - no more needing to manually adjust it. Beyond those two "fixes", I find the resolution of the CV2 to have stayed pretty much the same between the Master and External modes (seems like maybe the CV2 and SU-1 have good clocks?), although will need more time to play with it. This also requires having something like the SU-1 (SU-6 can also play the same role, perhaps even better), which isn't great if you don't have one.

    Anyway, thought I'd share. Cheers

    *Note - If you are interested in using the SU-1 to provide the word-clock out, you need to flip one of the dip switches (specifically switch #5 needs to be turned to "on") so that it outputs the right signal to the CV2.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019

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