DAP discussion thread

Yes, its the best one. Not saying that ZX 300 sounds bad. Its just that the DX220 sounds like a TOTL DAP that it is . BUT for a TOTL DAP, its affordable and you will not get bored with the sound due to the changeable amps. I have both and am not ready to get rid of either of them.

 

I am on the same page with Claud. To me, the ZX300 is pretty okayish. But I love it’s form factor, UI and reliability. But there are better sounding DAPs out there even in the same price range (Shanling M6, Hiby R6, iBasso DX160). I am not a big fan of Sony DAPs in general. They sound muddy, scratchy in the treble and not as resolving. The WM1Z and WM1A may be exceptions here, but that too only on their 4.4mm Bal.

SBAF has a distaste for Chinese brand DAPs, as at one point they were kind of half baked goods. Chinese DAPs have come a long way from that. But due to the original sentiment and the reliability of Sony DAPs, SBAF remains preferring Sony over other brands. Also most of the SBAFers here have a very nice desktop or speaker setup. So it makes sense to stick with a reliable DAP than one that sounds better, but can crap out, or start acting up some day.

 

Keep in mind that Sony never marketed the ZX300 as a TOTL DAP. Instead they market the WM1A and the WM1Z as their TOTL DAPs. Expecting the ZX300 as a TOTL DAP is wishful thinking IMO. I never had any scratchy treble on the ZX2 and the WM1A when running 4.4mm with my IEMs. However, it all depends if you are using the 4.4mm + an IEM that pairs it well.

Also, I found a minor difference when burning in each input of the WM1A. Sony recommends 200 hours for each input for full burn in, and I thought there was a minor improvement in resolution after the burn in period. However, not everyone is going to like the Sony sound, and that's ok.

Going back to ChiFi, yes, I agree with @EagleWings statement. You can go on a certain DAP's HF thread and see plenty of people complaining about software issues and less than stellar software (I bet half the thread pages is people complaining about the software). When they work they sound good for the most part (even using off the shelf parts), but after so much issues with ChiFi DAPs over the years I kind of don't want to touch them for a long time. You can only focus on the hardware for so long until people throw up their hands on how glitchy is your software.

 

Yes, I only use balanced inputs with these three DAPS. Another thing I have failed to mention is that you can use the IBasso DX 220 as a digital source for your headphone/HiFi system source. It includes a digital coax output and cable. It also includes a burn in cable. All this for a grand. That won't buy you much A & K.
I have not had any firmware or software issues. Maybe that's because I don't do much with it other than load it with tunes and play them. At the moment I have no plans to put Tidal on it although you can.

 

I've had the ZX2 and have the ZX300. I think Sony DAP DACs are really good - they dont sound digital at all. However the amp section lags behind from what I can tell. They're a little under powered, not very dynamic and the treble is a little too shelved IMO.

The ZX300 has two characteristics that are critical for a DAP for me - it's small and the battery lasts a long time. The firmware/software is also bulletproof. The only DAP I've seen lately that might compare is the Lotoo Paw 6000, but its about 4 times the price of the ZX300A, and not too many folks have heard it yet.

 

I would put the Lotoo PAW 6000 vs the WM1A to be honest. The ZX300 is just not on the level of those two DAPs.

I must admit that the PAW 6000 looks interesting. If Lotoo improves the FW for LDAC (which they stated it is coming soon), then you will have a nice middle ground similar to the WM1A. Of course the PAW 6000 doesn't have any built in storage (which the WM1A has 128 GB built in). Also heard that the PAW 6000 is closer to neutral than the WM1A.

 

I really liked the sound of the Lotoo Paw Gold, but the FW and UI were pretty much crap IMHO. It's hard as a small manufacturer to get those things really locked in - it takes a lot of time, capital and partnerships with manufacturers and really good developers. Sony has all the resources in the world to do all of that in house, and AK is nowhere near as big but they've invested along the way and have a solid foundation to build upon and a proven track record. They'll also both likely be around for a long time.

Hearing about the Paw 6000 makes me curious to hear it, but I'd be hesitant to purchase one due to FW and HW concerns as well as the risk of Lotoo possibly not being around in the future. I also applaud their use of a custom OS for how it can help with SQ, but that only amplifies these risks as optimizing an OS is non-trivial and keeping it updated is a major commitment.

Hope all of these concerns don't end up being warranted, but personally I'm not up for taking on that type of risk, especially for a complex piece of technology like a DAP.

PS - Also realize I'm biased in my opinions and viewpoint as a 1Z user!

 

Sony isn’t without its faults. I returned my ZX300 because of software issues and it wouldn’t work as a USB DAC. And I know many users who had issues with ZX1 and ZX2 software. Sony’s proprietary Walkman OS is really good and is one of things that makes their devices reliable. But Sony is once again going back to Android. And the new ZX500 doesn’t even circumvent Android’s resampling, which sucks. Almost all current gen Chi-Fi Android DAPs circumvent Android’s resampling.

If one is willing to sacrifice a little bit of sound quality for size and battery life, you got devices like Cowon Plenue D2. It’s smaller than the ZX300 and lasts longer. One of my friend tells me that it sounds quite close to the ZX300 in terms of performance. Sony just gets away making a sub-par sounding DAP, when it actually has the potential to make good sounding ones (WM1A and WM1Z).

I guess different strokes for different folks. I loved the UI on my LPG. If it weren’t for its average stage and aggressive treble, I’d probably still own it. I owned a 1Z for 2 weeks. My palm would literally start aching if I held it and used it for a few minutes. But it does sound very good out of its 4.4mm Bal. IMO, 1A and 1Z are the only worthy performers from Sony in the recent times. But even these 2 are not worth the asking price of $1200 and $3200.

 

I strongly that the ZX300 is subpar sounding at is price point (esp. at 400 dollars for the A version). Which 400 dollar DAPs sound better?

 

Hiby R6, Shanling M6, iBasso DX160

 

I haven't heard any of those. Someone with much more experience than I should make a DAP summary thread like SS's IEM thread, please.

 

To be fair nothing is worth the asking price for a lot of things. At least with Sony it isn't hard to get something below MSRP.

I have a feeling Sony is only doing Android for the ZX500 due to market demand. However, I don't think they will be rolling out Android for the rest of their DAP lineup. I would take a Sony OS without the WM-Port connector and I would be happy. Android is still IMO not designed for audio or DAP as its mission first statement.

Also Android DAPs have one big downside: How long their Android version OS support is going to last? Did the ZX2 came out 2015-2016? Currently it only goes up to Jelly Bean, and the SOC barely cuts it for the last version of Tidal that supports Jelly Bean. With Android DAPs it is going to be a ticking time bomb when the SOC will not be good enough for the latest streaming app. So at that point you will have to focus on the internal storage.

I think what Sony did and also what Lotoo is doing with their OS is a good middle ground. At least LDAC doesn't sound like ass and you can still stream music to your DAP, no dealing with Android. Of course you have to use two devices for this, and I see the appeal of people using just one device.

Edit: I think a DAP with their own OS that isn't Android will have a better and longer product life than one with Android. Unless a major audiophile tech appears and it becomes a killer app.

 

I recently got Sony ZX300. I paired them with JVC FDX. The combo may not be very dynamic but I find them very tasteful, smooth and tonally balanced.
Also I have faced no issues using it as DAC out of iphone
However I also don't have experience with lot of DAP. I owned Cowon J3 before this.

 

Let me summarize:

Do you own a good desktop or speaker setup?
If yes, ZX300 is just fine for portable use. It is reliable and gets the job done.

If no, are you able to spend $800?
If yes, pick up a pre-owned WM1A.

If no, are you willing to take the risk with a Chinese brand DAP?
If yes, do some research or PM me.

If no, then you are back to square one. Don’t overthink this and get the ZX300.

 

Fixed.

 

What about the Cayin n6ii? Is it any good?

 

From What I have seen, You should check out 3 DAP manufacturers. IBasso, FiIIo snd HiBy. They seem to have their act together. They even have their people trolling the forums at HF looking to talk to owners about their problems with their merchandise. They started off making cheap DAPS then figured out what people like us want and have adapted and flourished .

 

Depends on what you think it is good. The Cayin have a nice feature where you can swap out the DAC module boards. It is also I think Android 8.1 based with the standard Android Audio Stack being removed. In order words, any Android App should burn bit-perfect without Android re-sample it.

However, some people using the A01 DAC Board with I think the AKM chip stated they prefer the sound of the WM1A over it. There's a DAC Board with a PCM chip and one with a Sabre chip. Those boards aren't cheap though, and I think depending on the board it will eat up your battery. Like Chi-Fi product it is feature rich, but I'm always wary of anything Android as I stated on my other post. I just don't know how long the product life will be if you get the N6ii and buy the different DAC Boards. 8.1 should be good for a few years at least.

 

Also Cayin, Shanling, Lotoo, and who knows what else. When comparing some models from these manufactures they all try to do the same features with some quirks that makes it unique from that company.

 

Are you on their payroll too? This is total over generalized nonsense from someone who admits to not having heard many of the others. This thread is a good reminder that the dap world kinda sucks though so that’s good.