DAP discussion thread

Yeah, the 1Z is a beast. My primary use case is on airplanes (I fly on average twice or more a week) and there the 1Z's weight isn't an issue. When I first bought it I tried walking around town with it and it literally would try to pull down my pants. I felt cool, however, as most of the young kids around Philly wear their jeans so low you can see their boxers quite easily. I also have a 1A, which I got a really good deal on and I pretty much keep solely to lend to friends who want to hear what good IEMs really sound like.

Definitely to each their own and different strokes, etc. If you love what you have, listen and be happy! Cheers

 

What do you hear as main differences between Z and A?

 

You are right about this being the case. I just picked these three because I think they make damn good products and I am more familiar with their current efforts.

 

@EagleWings

Would you be able to compare the sound of Shanling M6 to WM1A?

Usually reviewers compare it to other Chinese daps, would be useful to get a reference against Sony daps that are more popular on this forum.

Also most reviews spend 3/4ths of the time talking about features and Android benchmarks which seems to be missing the point for me personally...

 

@likearake , unfortunately I don’t have a 1A on me right now to do a direct comparison. But we can try and extrapolate. Back when I compared the WM1A, Hiby R6 and ZX300A, to my ears and with my EE Phantom IEM, the 1A and R6 were clearly better than the ZX300A. The difference between the R6 and the 1A weren’t as dramatic as with the ZX300A, but the 1A did seem to edge the R6 with a slightly better stage, separation, layering, details and midrange realism.

Now the R6 and the M6 are on the same level in terms of performance. M6 has a slightly better black ground, smoother timbre but just as detailed, and doesn’t hit as hard in the bass as the R6. I have to listen very intently to pick up on the differences between these 2 DAPs. Whereas, I was able to tell the difference between the R6 and the 1A with a bit more ease. So going by extrapolation here, I would expect that the 1A probably sounds better than the M6.

Btw, all comparisons were done using Balanced outputs on these DAPs.

 

Thanks @EagleWings, that is a pretty useful and succinct comparison to me.

Is the DX160 also generally comparable to the R6 and M6?

As I find less time for pure music listening and more done on the go or while working, i have been looking pick up a player with offline Tidal and etc. capabilities. Sony just brought out the ZX500 but it seems to be light years behind the players you mentioned - the deal breaker for me is that it doesn't avoid re-sampling all the Android apps.

The Hiby R5 also looks pretty interesting and is a more ZX300 style portable size.

 

I tried the 160 only very briefly and didn’t get a chance to directly compare with the R6 and M6. I was able to tell the performance was on the same level as the R6 and M6. My friend and cousin who have compared the 160 with R6, R6Pro and a few other DAPs, tell me that 160 has a slight edge over these other DAPs in the $400-$600 price tier with a slightly wider stage, better separation and sharper transients. But I wasn’t a big fan of its UI. R6 and M6 have better UI.

I haven’t tried the Hiby R5 and ZX500. My trusted sources tell that R5 is meh. And the online impressions seem to indicate that the performance of ZX500 is quite similar to the ZX300. So it might make sense to go with the ZX500 over the R5, if you are okay with Android resampling.

What’s your max budget and what are your other requirements with respect to the DAP, other than offline Tidal?

 

I suppose it is more general interest, and nice to get some thoughts on DAPs we don't hear too much about in this forum. Hopefully I'm not the only one who finds these short comparisons relative to the Sony players to be much more useful than a 5 page review full of comparisons to 15 different Fiio or iBasso models.

Personally I had my eye on the Shanling M6 since I'm quite fond of my little M0 and it seems to have the features I'm looking for. I also have a WM1A.

My key requirements would be:

- Doesn't hiss loudly with sensitive IEMs like Andromeda or Solaris.
- Sounds good.
- Don't really care about hi res but resampling standard 44khz content to 48khz is a no for me, especially with how badly Android handles this by default.
- Online and offline streaming programs.
- More portable and cheaper is better but not as important as sounding good.
- Needs reasonable battery life.

Given you seem to have heard a lot of models, and maybe others will be interested in similar things to me, and this is a DAP thread, do you have any other general recommendations?

 

Cool. Let me just share my thoughts on some devices, and a list a few more that can run Tidal offline. But please do some more research on these as I have not personally tried all the below devices. The devices I have tried are in bold.

Shanling M6 - The sound is very good, although I suspect it would be a small step down from your WM1A. Works well with sensitive IEMs too and you can use Tidal offline. Battery life is also very good. What I don’t like about this device is, it’s huge for a mid-fi DAP. It feels chunky. Also it’s a swipe gesture based UI, which doesn’t work all that well inside the Shanling music app. I am yet to try Neutron. But yea, I think this would fit your needs ideally. For better sound quality, DX220 would be an option.

Shanling M2X - Entry level DAP, so entry level sound quality. Going to sound better than your M0. I love this device. It is a pleasure to use it in terms of hardware size, weight and simple UI. It doesn’t run Android but it does have a local Tidal client. I couldn’t test how Tidal works on it, as I busted my free trial a long time back. It’s also good with sensitive IEMs too.

Hiby R6 SS - This would be one of my recommendations if you didn’t have multi-BA IEMs, as the Output Impedance of the device is 10Ohm. The UI is very refined. Love the sound of this. It is very dynamic and punchy with a slightly warm tone. Allows Tidal offline. Would be a solid option if all you have are DD IEMs. It has poor WiFi reception. So you need to be right next to the router to browse or download your Tidal content.

Hiby R6 Pro - Not very different from the Hiby R6 SS in terms of sound. But it fixes a couple of issues like weak WiFi and the high Output Impedance. But then it also has high output power and higher noise floor that it hisses with sensitive IEMs. Also for some reason it’s RF/EMI shielding is not as good as the R6, so apparently you get some RF/EMI noise if you place the device next to cell phones.

Hiby R5 - Apparently meh sounding for the price and the UI is not as refined as the R6 platform, but still decent. But meets all your other requirements.

iBasso DX160 - Very good sounding for the price. Apparently punches way above its price point in terms of sound performance. But the good things kinds stop there. The UI is not as refined as on the Shanling or Hiby devices. The battery life is acceptable. Not that the other devices listed here all have amazing battery life. The volume knob leaves more to be desired. Not sure how it does in terms of hiss with sensitive IEMs. I think you can load Tidal, but please so do some research to confirm.

iBasso DX220 - UI is still not going to be on par with Shanling or Hiby. I haven’t tried it personally, but from what I hear, it would probably be the best sounding of the ChiFi bunch in this list particularly with the Amp 8. Please check about the hiss performance and Tidal as I am not familiar.

Fiio M11 and M11 Pro - Forget the M11. Everyone who I have talked to say it’s a meh sounding device. The M11 Pro is better sounding but errs on the neutral-bright side. Good hiss performance and allows you to load Tidal. Great UI. Almost as refined as current gen smartphone. Plus the edge to edge type display is beautiful. The neutral-bright tone may not be for everyone. Also I feel, Fiio has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to sound performance compared to the other Chinese DAP brands.

Fiio M15 - Just got released. No idea how it sounds. Will have to wait for my friends to get their hands on this one.

Astell and Kern - Various models at various price points. Very reliable as Sony. Poor EQ implementation. Depending on the model it either sounds okay or very good. Very good hiss performance. Great UI. It comes with a native Tidal client but it doesn’t support Tidal offline. You need to side load Tidal to get Tidal offline.

 

Agree with all your feedback. I'm currently running DX220 with amp8 and it's surprisingly good.
DX160 is a very solid recommendation and certainly better than M11 (sold mine after a week...). M11 pro, didn't try very long but was not impressed.

M15... tried back to back volume matched compared to my DX220/8 for a good 2 hours. Long story short: meh. DX220 is not going anywhere.

 

I think that if more members tried the Ibasso DX 220, most of them would not be bothered by the UI because it sounds sooooo good. When you add Amp 8, it just kicks it up another notch. I am not a computer geek, but I have been able to enjoy my DX220, and when I needed a touch of guidance, I looked in the dedicated thread at HF. We have some bright folks here. Maybe we need a dedicated DX220 thread here. I think the DX 220 is your best bang for the buck DAP at the moment.
So, you say, "what about the 160?" I like it so much that I am going to buy my son one for next Christmas. Maybe make a combined thread here for both of them.

 

Yep, a friend of mine in Singapore also tried the M15 on Monday and said the sound was okayish for the price. I guess its just another stinker from Fiio.

 

I recently picked up a LG V20 to use as a DAP. No Sim card, no cell service. Wifi and bluetooth and usb-c for connections, which is fine. Running in airplane mode, then turn wifi and bt back on, extends battery life. Its really bad if you don't turn on airplane mode.

It is now rooted with Oreo, came with Nougat. I wanted Oreo because it allows you to change bluetooth codecs. With Oreo I can get aptx-hd on my es-100.

Its kind of big, but that also means a large screen, which you appreciate when you get older and screens get smaller.
Battery life could be better, but I've been making tweaks to extend the life, and one reason I bought a v20 is that you can replace the battery. Its quite easy, a little button to pop off the rear cover and there's the battery.

So my somewhat out of the box dap. Just got it, but happy so far.
Since V20's are old now, I think they are out of production, they are relatively cheap. I paid $100 for a open box one that turned out to be brand new.

 

My previous DAP was an SR15 from A&K. I'm personally digging my M11 Pro so far. The combo of 4497 and THX amplification is slightly warmer than I thought it would be. Very good extension in the sub-bass and in the treble, and it's not bright as I thought it might be, having been a previous owner of the smsl sp200. It's got a fast processor, and the fiio music UI is much better than it has been on previous products like X7ii. My initial Impressions are that it's a pretty refined DAP with some very good technicalities for a fair price (about $650).
Edit: these impressions are via my Oppo pm-3

 

After way too copious amounts of research, the only device that appeals to me is the DX160. However there are reports of noise from screen and wifi interference, as well as shit battery life. The AK SR15 is supposed to be mid centric and have reliability issues, in addition to meh battery.

This is why Sony is so appealing. They get that we want something a) reliable, b) with long battery and c) that sounds good. I just wish they would make something a little more dynamic and neutral.

The only other device that ticks all those boxes, from what I can see, is the Lotoo Paw 6000. It's 1.2k though, which is more than I'm comfortable to pay for a source that will be used to mostly drive IEMs in environments with background noise.

 

They also get that customers will anyways spend their money to buy their DAP even it doesn’t perform as good as the completion.

 

Well except with respect to it actually working as intended.

 

If you want dynamics the Ibasso stuff is not the way to go. Shit’s dead as a doornail. The SR15 is similarly sleepy sounding but replaces straight up sterility with this gross fake sounding warmth. I have not tried LP6k but the other touchscreen Lotoo, the LPGT, is a glassy digital sounding mess. The LP6k is supposedly better, but honestly I think it’d be worse than a WM1A for the same (if not more) money. Nothing matches the timbre of the Sony stuff.

 

Ummm, I returned my ZX300 because certain features on it didn't 'work as intended'. Browse through the Sonys daps thread to find out issues about SD cards not being read properly and intermittent cutouts and etc. If working as intended is the criteria here, current gen smartphones and iPods are more reliable than the Sony Zx300.

My point was, for the price that Sony is charging for the Zx300, it isn't worth it.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't pay full price. But at ZX300A price, its a good buy.

I've owned Sony (x2), AK (x1), Fiio (x2), Cowon (x1) and Shozy (x1).

Sony, Cowon and Shozy (duh) worked as intended with no idiosyncrasies. Not so for the others.

Also, battery life and pocketability are huge for me for a portable unit. Most other DAPs struggled to reach double digit play time battery wise.