Denon AH-D7200 Measurements and Impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    Would like to see measurements with the ZMF Ori pads
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Denon AH-D7200 Distortion Impedance Curve and Electrical Phase
    (give of take a few ohms)

    [​IMG]

    This measurement was taken with the headphone on the coupler, so the impedance curve would be reflective of the headphone being worn and used. While the nominal impedance is low, around twenty something, the bass bump is at 30Hz, and only rises 5 ohms higher. The Denon AH-D7200's frequency response should be fairly immune to amplifiers with high source impedance.

    There is a little bump just under 3kHz which corresponds with a distortion and CSD spike. I wonder if there is something mechanical ringing in the headphone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'll be sending them over to @Hands. Will let him experiment. I've been stretched for spare time lately. Send materials over to him.


    I feel that a full blown chart is unnnecessary, because there is such a family resemblance between them. They all perform similarly in terms of resolution, microdynamics, macrodynamics. The main differences are distortion (clarity / cleanness) and frequency response.

    • TH-900: cleanest bass and clearest sounding of the bunch. Ton of sub and low bass, dip in lower mids, sharp lower treble. This one has the good magnet. Might be more resolving than the rest by a hair.
    • TH-600 / 610 like a TH-900: but bass quality not as good, higher distortion, sharp lower treble. Throw this in the garbage. Ugly sister to TH-900.
    • X-00 maghogeny: W curve version of above. Bass and treble not so overemphasized. None of the mega sub-low bass. Slight wood resonance play.
    • X-00 purpleheart: Most "colored" and has the strongest wood resonance of the X00s. My personal favorite of the X-00s.
    • X-00 ebony: Least colored and best treble behavior of them all.
    • AH-D7200: Dark tilt with slight W curve of the above. Might be more resolving by a hair to the above, comparable to TH-900. However still not has clean in the bass as TH-900.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  4. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Much obliged! So the TH-900 is still basshead king, huh? Shame that the treble on the Mk2 is janked up; I survived my Beyer DT800s but couldn't stand wearing the TH-900s for more than a minute. Gah, pretty urushi gone to waste! (Might as well try applying the same to the EB cups, haha). Still hoping one of the audio peeps here picks up a D7200 so I can give em a spin.

    Either way, looks like the world is still in need of a true reference closed-back flagship, one that doesn't cost your firstborn's left arm. Sigh.
     
  5. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    Thanks for this. In the past I had heard good things about the D7000 vs TH-900, so I was wondering how the D7000 fit in all of this... (My understanding is that it's an even more basshead version than hte TH-900.)
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    DT880s have a normal midrange. TH-900's lower treble spike is made worse by the lower mid dip. The lower mid dip actually helps with a sense of clarity, but it also takes away body.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    D7000 has a very spotlit, but razor-like deadly laser beam mid-treble peak, scooped mids over a broader area, and strong overall bass. TH-900 bass seems to be more emphasized in the lower regions, but this might be because of its low distortion and lower mid dip. D7000 does have a certain lushness, probably because the bass emphasis bleeds into the mids more.
     
  8. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    And a follow-up question on the TH-X00. I always found confusing the variations, and the above doesn't clear things up either. For instance, why would you prefer more the Purpleheart (most colored) to the Ebony (least colored)? If there were another TH-X00 drop, I'm still not sure which one I'd choose...
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    1. Because I don't want to collect all three variations, like with Pokemon: Vaporeon / Jolteon / Flareon, or SWGOH characters: Jedi Knight Anakin / Darth Vader.
    2. If going for the J-fi sound, may as well go all-out colored sound. Why stop half way?
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Denon AH-D7200 vs ZMF Eikon Frequency Response

    Eikon = Orange
    D7200 = Green
    D7200 vs Eikon Frequency Response.png

    They sound similar. Distortion (not pictured is comparble and has similar characteristics). I'd probably pick Eikon by a hair. Treble seems subjectively smoother and overall sound on Eikon seems less laid back in treble. Eikon is heavier, but suspension headband more comfortable. Eikon has more cup reverb for better or worse.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  11. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Got the AH-D7200 in, so here are my thoughts:

    - Overall, pretty good tonal balance. I recall the TH-X00 being more lit in the upper octaves, and the 7200 is a bit smoother and more toned down up there. Similar-ish bass and midrange response, for the most part. The Eikon is a little darker and softer sounding in some parts of the mids and certainly in the treble, but not my an insane amount.

    - Lots of bass, much like you'd expect from this sort of headphone. But it's pretty clean, more focused on the lowest octaves, and is less basshead-sounding than you'd expect. Doesn't bleed into mids too much. Mostly just sounds like it has more "oomph" to it without overdoing it, but is weird when coming from something like the Eikon or HD650.

    - Midrange has some noticeable glare to it. It has that sort of banshee effect to it, where it sounds like it's screaming in your ears. Think the Monoprice 1060, but with ringing at a lower pitch and with a much faster, cleaner decay to it. Not terrible, but not great. Probably fine for most, depending on listening levels and what you listen to.

    - Some details sound a bit artificial and oversharpened. Quite resolving and detailed overall, but sounds a bit fake doing it. Couple this with the midrange glare, and I found I couldn't listen as loud as I'd like in order to cope. It's really not THAT bad, and mostly a non-issue at a lower volume, but still there. I feel like the Eikon better captures little nuances and such, though a properly driven HD650 is a bit better than that even still.

    - Not too closed sounding for a closed headphone, but also not as spacious and airy sounding as the Eikon. Kind of walks that line between being laid-back and really forward in many ways.

    - Pads are fairly comfortable. Headband stretches oddly on large heads and has a major hot spot right on top of your noggin. Headband lacks padding.

    - Headband sliding mechanism, or, rather, the parts that holds the sliding rods in place inside the headband itself, are made of thin plastic and will break if you essentially try to adjust the shape of the headband with even mild pressure (not that I'd know...). And those internal parts basically take up the whole headband, so if the 7200 doesn't fit right, you're just out of luck. Otherwise, build quality and materials seem nice. Cups are nice wood, but I find the matte finish on this wood choice to look boring.

    Overall, the AH-D7200 is a pretty good closed headphone. For my tastes, I think it takes a couple steps forward from the TH-X00 and then quickly takes a couple steps back. So, it's better in some ways, worse in others. I think for the price, I'd recommend a TH-X00 variant instead. Similar sound, less midrange glare, and you can always add a bit of front damping to tone down the brighter treble. I also think the Eikon is more evenly tuned and just a better listen overall, even if it's not as sharp or bright sounding in ways that would make it a bit better. The Eikon is also pricier...but also hand made and more charming in that regard.

    Measurements

    As usual, this is set to 1KHz at 90dB. This might be misleading and make you think the upper mids and treble are pretty recessed. I think it is more accurate to look at the upper mids and treble as more balanced, so you'd see a bit of an emphasis between 400-1.3KHz or so. Personally, I'm not sure I noticed that midrange bump so much.

    Bass bump is centered just above 30Hz and transitions to the mids in such a way that isn't jarring but still makes the bass sound a hair disconnected in listening.

    What really gets me is that shark fin bump right around 3KHz. That stands out in listening. Again, it's not horrible, but it's not soothing either. The 10KHz peak also likely contributes to these sounding a bit sharper than is totally natural, but usually mild peaks here aren't too big of a deal.

    I was also too lazy to get measurements of the right channel. Marv's results showed good channel matching overall.

    Denon AH-D7200 Left FR.png


    Again, with 1KHz at 90dB, distortion results look excellent on my modest set. That's about as low as it'll go with my mic.

    Denon AH-D7200 Left THD.png


    Unfortunately, that 3KHz spike also manifests with some sharp ringing. I've seen worse, but you can hear it screeching a bit on most material. Otherwise, these results would look fairly good.

    Denon AH-D7200 CSD.PNG


    I decided to match the Eikon and AH-D7200 around 250Hz. I felt this better represented how they sounded compared to each other. In the midrange and treble, you can see they follow a somewhat similar curve. Of course, the 7200 is brighter up top and has that unfortunate 3KHz peak. No surprise, the 7200 also has much more of a bass emphasis, where as the Eikon is very, very tastefully tuned.

    Eikon vs AH-D7200.png


    Seeing as my TH-X00 had some channel imbalance, I made sure to include both channels in this comparison. I think the right channel TH-X00 results are more indicative of how they sounded to me. So, you get similar bass and a less bright top-end on the 7200, but you do see more of a 400Hz-1.3KHz emphasis and that sharp response and ringing around 3KHz. My TH-X00 CSD results looked very clean from top to bottom as well. Neither is perfect, but I think I'd have an easier time living with the TH-X00...and the lower price doesn't hurt my decision.

    TH-X00 vs AH-D7200.png
     
  12. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    I actually got to hear the TH-900 recently... and it sounds exactly like every one describes it. Big Powerful but very clean bass, lot's of clarity but it's well Thin, resolve was ok but it lacked depth, especially compared to @Bill-P modded ES10, and I volume matched the two.

    Really not super impressive, but again there are a lot of mods for it, so that may help the overall imaging

    I guess I'm not expecting much from Denon/Fostex at this point,

    also @Hands thank you for the impressions and measurements, @gbeast do you still have your JVC DX1000? I'm curious how it compares to the Denon/Fostex family
     
  13. Monstieur

    Monstieur New

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    Is the bass on the TH-900 really $500 better than the AH-D7200? I am able to get the AH-D7200 for $1000, but the TH-900 will cost close to $2000. I'm coming from an SE846 and I want something with its quality of bass that is flat to the lowest frequency possible.
     
  14. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    One of the more trusted ears on the forum did a comparison just a few posts above:
    http://superbestaudiofriends.org/in...ments-and-impressions.4602/page-2#post-146681

    Also, you have to consider that the TH-900s are covered in silver flakes, red urushi lacquer (which is damn expensive even considering the fact that it's applied with a spray can instead of by hand, as is tradition for Japanese urushiware), and platinum foil. You pay a premium for the blinginess.

    EDIT:
    Have yet to hear the D7200 (WANT!), but if you're going for the TH-900 you'd better hope you're not sensitive to treble spikes. The imaging and soundstage on the TH-900 (Mk2) were both awesome, and the bass was certainly otherworldly to my ears, but I couldn't listen to them for more than a dozen or so seconds cuz the treble was like daggers.

    I had a couple friends along with me when I demoed the cans, and she had to tear them off her ears almost immediately after. Guess she's more sensitive to treble than I am, and honestly that's saying something; even the minor 11kHz bump on the X00 EB bothers the hell out of me on some tracks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  15. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    I am just seeing this now and this is all excelent info to compare to mine.

    Please tell me your CSD settings in Arta so I can plug in the exact same settings so we can compare..

    I was trying to get my CSD similar to Marvey settings using ARTA here:
    Comparison2.png
    But it the variability of the FFT settings settings means no way to be sure close so still cannot on visual comapisons as the graphs are timmed different.

    I also have data in REW.

    Also not sure how close my coupler response is to yours of Marvey, so upper range would differ slightly.

    Anyways, if you notice, my results are not stock Dennon results,
    but my own changes, of my Dennon which has been extensively altered.


    |\/|
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  16. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Remind me in private to show you my settings, or else I'll forget here. Maybe remind me a few times. :)
     
  17. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    You'll need a stock headphone that you can compare to other measurements to get a good baseline for calibration. HD650 is an easy one but others work.
     
  18. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    yes I did this already with the HD580.
    My coupler is closer to member "Ultrabike" than innerfidelity.

    Also, I can post ARTA CSD same elapse time as "Hands" no problem.
    I just want to make shure using exact comparisons using same FFT numbers.
    Anyways I will post tonight as the office has noisy AC vents lol

    Also if I get on the loaner program I can post stock Dennon with both Ori pads and Brainwavz pads,
    And also the Ether Electrostatic pads.

    Edit:
    My Dennon cannot be converted back to stock as I opened some felt holes in it as part of my mod.
     
  19. Monstieur

    Monstieur New

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    How is the sound stage compared to an open-back like the Amiron Home and a semi-closed like the T1?
     
  20. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Here is a pic of my measurement of the stock Denon unit (in purple)
    And my own moded unit using ORI pads(in red).
    [​IMG]

    My measurement rig has what looks like a more bass elevation than normal because I pressed on them for better seal.
    I realize if I let them naturally rest the coupler bass level would be more similar to the general levels of SBAF measurements.

    Anyways, stock still shows similar to earlier measurements.
    I have more pad measurements differences I will get to post soon so you can see how they will affect stock.
    Also as you can see my modded unit in red is way different than stock in sound.
    I was able to give it the upper spectrum energy it was lacking in stock form, without loss of any bass.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017

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