E MU Teak

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Mshenay, Jun 25, 2016.

  1. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Still find the E-MU a little bright. Compared to modded 6XX:

    E-MU teak AHL vs 6XXm.jpg

    I was suggested to try reducing resonances in between the baffles (driver baffle and second baffle where earpads attach), so going to try craft felting wool and second skin damplifier pro. Also am reluctantly trying a more expensive mod: Lawton Audio cups. Lawton said to me that between his cups, pads, and internal cup/driver tuning kit that his cups make the most improvement toward reducing treble spikes. So before other mods, I'd like to setup the baseline with Lawton cups (arriving soon).

    Any suggestions for reducing highs/treble? I'd like to avoid putting anything in front of the driver.
     
  2. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Also, forgot to mention that now I am looking at another amplifier due to the background noise in Vali2 with E-MU. The E-MU sensitivity + mild isolation + possibly treble spikes make it easier to hear the background hiss/noise from Vali2. It's not obvious when playing music... but when listening with E-MU I thought about amp noise so hit pause and heard the hiss. Now, I don't know if this is just a bad tube yet (need to try with 6XX and try another tube), but if it is then it's the third bulb that has gone bad in an unusually short period of time so that would also be enough for me to want to try another amp. Vali2 is supposed to be on the laid-back side and I'd like something in a similar vein that might pair well with slightly bright headphones, but also with more play on volume knob / less gain / low volume channel imbalance.

    edit: will update this post with results of amp troubleshooting
    edit update: can't hear amp noise with 6XXm
    edit update update: tried new tube and noise disappeared with E-MU... tube life
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  3. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Photos not great. Cloudy rainy day + newb dslr skills. The Lawtons are mahogany and look brighter in real life.

    I had to stop install because I hit a snag. The pre-drilled screw holes are a tiny bit off. I'm going to undo the three already screwed-in and retry more carefully. If still an issue, then I'll have to contact Lawton for advice.

    The teak is thinly cut so internal volume differences aren't as huge as they appear from outside. The thinly cut teak resonates more. A small tap on teak produces a much higher pitched ring. The biggest difference would be that the teak has no internal damping.

    The Lawtons have three slots inside cup, where stock cups have only two. The two slots allow space for the gimbal attachements. The third slot on Lawton's I imagine is to help make sure there is still a leaky baffle. @E_Schaaf clued me in that stock cups are not completely sealed and purposely(?) have a little air leak at those 2 slots.

    Later will be trying damping mods in teak cups, and damping mods in front baffle where earpads attach.

    [​IMG]IMG_6412 by philimonmon, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG_6415 by philimonmon, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG_6418 by philimonmon, on Flickr

    [​IMG]IMG_6429 by philimonmon, on Flickr
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  4. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Just doing a quick listen to try and confirm successful install before going out. Measurements later.

    Quick impression: more warmth, less glare. Probably more soundstage. Sounds really good off my iphone! I was not so happy with these pre-Lawton - sounded kinda bright and dry (lean?). However, how much improvement is due to cup vs cup damping materials?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Edit: DSLR’s old memory card stopped working. But the pics with my iphone xr are actually closer to real life color of wood.
     
  5. shambles

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    Following the mods with interest and looking forward to more detailed impressions of the Lawton mods. I have a pair of X00s as my main daily drivers that I am overall very happy with, but seeing threads like this and E_schaaf's epic TH900 mods it makes me wonder what improvements could be obtained without too much effort.

    I know in your case the main motivation for this was dealing with the brightness/treble issues on the Teaks, but I actually don't find the treble on the X00 to be an issue (though I know some others do). As such, I'd be very interested to hear about any other changes/improvements outside of the treble region such as the increase in warmth and soundstage you mentioned above.
     
  6. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Frequency response measurements do not look like much of any improvement. I tried presenting some distortion measurements. This is my first time trying to present this data with EARS, so probably shoddy. I'd be pleased if somebody would take better measurements for me please? @purr1n @Hands @cskippy etc.

    Subjectively, I felt like I could hear a big difference. Much less edgy upper frequencies, and less thick bass.

    My old teak measurements did not have a great seal in all the tests save for R2, so that's what I used for comparison. The upper frequency differences between L/R are in the EARS and/or compensation. I had to manually apply light pressure to Lawton cups to get a seal, because the extra weight pulled the pads away from the EARS baffle. This was not a problem with my human ears since they are wider apart and fit headband better.

    E-MU Lawton AHL.jpg

    E-MU teak AHL.jpg

    E-MU Lawton AHL vs teak AHL.jpg

    E-MU THD.jpg

    E-MU 2nd.jpg

    E-MU D3.jpg

    E-MU D4.jpg
     
  7. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Think of it this way - why would the cups and light stuffing make a measurable difference given the rest is unchanged? You've got a single 4-5mm circular baffle vent with the front damper rings pointed strategically away from the hole so as to not worsen that dip at ~450hz. The driver's rear side only has 2 vents open (out of 12). There's just not that much backwave energy, and what little there is is most likely being absorbed by the cup stuffing as opposed to reflecting around a bit and projecting back through the baffle. I have noticed that as the cups deepen, you get that slightly more downward slope from 1k-4k like we see here. That's true in basically every case with these Foster builds.

    If you decide to open rear driver vents or baffle vents, cup swapping will make a much more dramatic difference. But I don't necessarily suggest doing so unless you're content to accept that they'll never be exactly the same as they are now, and you're willing to experiment for quite some time to figure out a configuration that you like. These headphones have a mod ceiling (though rolling pads can take you pretty far) until you start making irreversible changes - wish it weren't the case, but that's just how it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  8. Philimon

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    Mods based on @E_Schaaf 's work in modding of TH900 and THX00.

    This is my choice for mod1 - removal of driver baffle rear vent filter paper.

    @E_Schaaf Do you have a link for the AP2000Ti pads? I tried search the AT site but had no luck.

    I think next would be driver center vent filter paper removal. Then after that probably stuffing some wool around circumference of cups.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    EMU driver baffle vent removal.jpg

    Edit: Paper filter was easy to remove, just had to dig in to get started, then just peeled off in one swoop.
    Edit2: Will see what this looks like with stock pads.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  9. Philimon

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    [​IMG]

    Mod2: Removed paper filter from center driver magnet vent. Added some damplifier pro inside earpad mounting rings.

    Yeah, I was impatient and did two mods at once. Mod1 did not sound like an improvement - weird mids like stock Blon BL30, and fatiguing bass like 6XX sans driver vent filter, bass also less present which was bad. Mod2: suspect 3kHz dip is still a thing but maybe less so, bass still reduced or maybe thats sub bass. Im listening from iphone atm so not straight comparison... More notes tomorrow plus measurements. Wool stuffing will be mod3.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  10. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Opening vents won't make it sound better til you stuff the cups / work on central vent filtration. Otherwise you'll just get a huge hole in the 2-4k area.
     
  11. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Oh yeah. I understand its a combination of mods and then fine tuning. I was just adding sound description for curious readers along the way.

    The natural wool is loose and non adhesive. Im initially going to just try lightly stuffing. Ive also read your recommendation to avoid placing directly behind driver, but also saw sushi mod is sort of a
    duct filled with cotton directly behind driver. Your thread did advance in mods and then also switched between TH900 and X00. Which do you recommend for EMU/X00?

    Edit: And mass damping on back of driver is important like 6XXKISS?

    Edit2: Realized “central vent filtration” is reference to sushi mod. I will do that as mod4. Does it have to be cotton or is wool okay? And the seaweed is craft felt?

    Edit3: Realized “central vent filtration” could also be referring to front baffle foam ring. What I understood is that mod is for adding sub bass. I forget if this is supposed to be more or less porous for affect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  12. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Don't sweat mass damping the driver / baffle assembly. Doesn't matter what the 'seaweed' is made of so long as it can hold your filter of choice in place. I tried many materials and found cotton to give the best balance. But anything well packed and fibrous should give a similar result.
     
  13. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    E-MU mod2.jpg
    I still have to apply a tiny bit of manual pressure to outside of cups to get a seal. L1 may have had less seal. I try to apply minimal pressure...

    Up next I will stuff entire cavity with wool. I don't understand why the sushi mod is required if the entire cavity is stuffed @E_Schaaf .
     
  14. Philimon

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    First photo shows how much can fit. While closing up I decided to halve since it required some effort to hold closed and I was worried what that extra pressure when screwing might do to the wood. Second photo is half wool. Third photo shows how I rolled up wool. Middle part is densest and spirals out to edges.

    EMU mod3.jpg

    This is not a good time for measurements but I couldnt wait. The background noise is high with washer running and television on (quietly). Too loud to try some subjective impressions.

    So, I guess sushi mod is to fill 3k dip? Though I still don't understand how that works. Also, I have to try sealing up front wave from rear wave to bring up bass? That can be done in several ways: sealing up earpad mounting ring, sealing outer baffle holes, and making less porous the center foam ring. Correct?
     
  15. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Think of the sushi mod as much as a backwaveguide as a damper. The energy now is diffused and absorbed as opposed to controlled and directed. It will fill out that hole. That's too much stuffing. Keep stuffing to the sides of the cup. Front rings need to be more closed cell but also have cuts for venting to the baffle like the notches on the stock rings. Rear driver venting isn't all open or all closed, try various alternating arrangements by patching with micropore tape.
     
  16. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Is the sushi roll supposed to extend all the way to back of cup?

    I was planning to roll some wool in lite foam. The lite foam would not be great as a waveguide since its so porous, no? I dont have any craft felt in house atm. What about wrapping in micropore tape, or craft paper, or painters tape?

    The sushi wool is pact tighter than cup wool?

    I will try micropore tape on top of center foam baffle ring. Messing with different levels of sealing baffle holes after.

    Thank you E_Schaaf!
     
  17. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    As a rule of thumb the side walls for the sushi mod should be about as tall as the magnet protrusion on the rear of the driver. So if the driver magnet sticks out 3mm, the side walls should cover that entire 3mm portion plus another 3mm of height (6mm total height on whatever material you're using). I don't think it will hit the back wall of the cup.

    Doesn't need to be quite so precise down to the mm, but you are adding a bit of height. Doesn't matter what material the side walls are as long as they hold the fibers in place and stand up straight and don't allow pressure to escape through the sides. So if you'll use tape, magnetic tape might be better than micropore, though micropore is best for driver vent patches IME.

    Yes, you'll want to very densely pack the sushi mod moreso than the rest of the cup.

    I wouldn't mess too much with the front til you're satisfied with what's going on in the back.
     
  18. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    [​IMG]

    Mod4: removed cup wool, applied a sushi roll. Damplifier pro with 1/4 of previous cup wool placed within.

    Sigh of relief, bass is back strong. I didnt place any wool within cups besides the sushi roll. Thought I would test like this first. Expect reflection issues now with the metal skinned damplifier pro so will add back cup wool - just not as much as before. After measurements.

    The AHL pads add a bit to the 3kHz dip. However, not hearing dip with sushi roll.

    Went long on length of sushi roll. And though damplifier is stiff and maintains shape, will it stay in place holding up all that weight over time and use? Might edit to go the recommended length of 6mm for durability.
     
  19. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Lows through mids sound as good and clear as ever. Cymbals a little off, extra shimmer, brighter. The cups need some wool put back in anyway as recommended. Metal damplifier skin can't be good for highs.

    3kHz dip not disconcerting like mod1. Both AHL pads and Lawton cups induce 3kHz dip as well. Will try stock pads again, but I'm all in on the Lawton cups.

    Included my modded 6XX measurements to show channel imbalance inherent to my measurement rig. Also, may have not made baffle orientations symmetrical when reinstalling - changing position of vents. When going back in I'll try to remember to take note of positioning.

    E-MU mod4 (1).jpg
    6XXm.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  20. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Looks like you'll need to pack the sushi mod more or swap to cotton - that hole should already be filled out since before.
     

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