EC Aficionado (was: The Studio Jr.)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by AppleheadMay, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    You should call that amp the Stag. Then when there's a meet, you can say it's a stag party.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The problem was sales. Very few 4-45 or 2A3mk4 sales. My guess is that people didn't want to deal with x4 tubes which can be a considerable additional expense. As far the benefits, it's both the output and interstage. The Cinemags with the tertiary windings were far ahead of anything else used or tested before (ElectraPrint, Lundahl, Hammond, Edcor, Chinese custom, etc.). They have the potential (assuming everything else in the circuit is capable) to sound super clean. Taking a tiny bit of feedback from the tertiary coil works well to tame excess bloom and warmth (distortion) without deleterious effects of traditional feedback.

    On the 4-45, the custom 4-45 interstages were probably more responsible for the amp's lean sound than the 45 tubes. The Hammond interstages were too warm and murky (although I thought the Hammond+Cinemag combination was fantastic, better than anything else before it, and we sold a select few of these in China). The $$$ NC-20 Tangos were only slightly better than the Hammonds in terms of clarity, but were a slight step up in the micro-stuff. Bottom line is that I don't think people liked the 4-45, and the few people who owned it were probably using DS DACs. I know Craig sent off a 4-45 to the JPS Labs guys in NY who ran a Mytek DAC at a show. I cannot think of a worse combination. I wished I worked for EC then because I would have stopped that in its tracks. For reference, I used my 4-45 with the AGD M7 - makes sense since you know how the M7 DAC sounds like.

    Ultimately if stuff doesn't sell, we've got to change things around. I was supposed to wire up the Cinemags to an existing BA and do some other tweaks over the holidays, but I didn't have enough time with everything else going on. I suspect we can get better performance if take a look at different caps. Craig hasn't been much of a cap roller up until recently; and however cheesy it is, I think picking the right cap is crucial for designs like this. I'm hoping the Studio Jr. will sell because it's an update to the BA. People love that BA chassis and it would be nice to bring it back (BA sales are a trickle now - mostly to Asia.) So yeah, we're going to see how a cap does. If it sucks (merely good, not great), then we will nix it and it will remain on the shelf as one of many aborted projects.
     
  3. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador

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    Thanks for the reply @purrin that was more than I thought I'd get.

    Sales...damn, I guess that makes sense. The BA and ZD have reached basically mythic status at this point, so I guess for a lot of people they'd rather buy a known quantity than something new even if the new thing has nothing but rave reviews.

    And from your guys' perspective it's easier to change the BA a bit than it would be to design a more drastic change maybe using the WE417As and a lesser interstage, maybe something from Cinemag again, even if that would sound better.

    And I just realized you might have answered another question I had, about transformers. You guys continue to use cinemag OPTs but say their interstage in the 445 might have been lean, but you use Monolith and Tribute Interstages, are the tribute and monolith OPTs not as good as the cinemags? Or is it mostly because of the tertiary winding not being available from them?

    Seems weird that cinemag would have the best OPT but not the best interstage, is the design of those two types of transformers that different?


    On a side note, if I had gotten that 445 on the HF classifieds, I was thinking it might be possible to swap out those cinemag custom interstages for a set of the monolith nano crystalline core ones. That'd be pretty steep though...
     
  4. Bourne Perfect

    Bourne Perfect Friend

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    The Taunto.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The story behind the Cinemag OPTs with the bifilar and tertiary windings, at least from David Geren at Cinemag, is that they are based on what Mcintosh did back in the day. As far the Monolith and Tribute OPTs, they are even more $$$. I wanted to try some Monolith OPTs; but I ran outta money, or at least some shithead ran off with some money I loaned him which would have been used for this purpose. Remember what Jason said: there is always something better. I don't know if this statement will be true with a different OPT, but our gut feeling is no, or at least we really like the sound of what we have so far and for now. Now we could work on the designs another three or four years, maybe even using the time to decide on the proper shade of purple...

    Won't fit. The Tribute interstages are tall or long (and most importantly simply not available). The Monolith interstages are gigantic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  6. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador

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    Thanks again for the insight Purrin, I really love reading that stuff. Decision making processes at our favorite amp makers are always enlightening, one of the reasons I like Jason's blog so much.

    Hahaha fair enough, though I still think a Gungnir Multibit into a 445 into a pair of modded 650s would be stupendous. And never forget, where there's a will there's a way
     
  7. cizx

    cizx Friend

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    This. If so, it's an easy choice over ZD S for me. If not, then I can save money and sell my speakers.
     
  8. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    It's what's gonna either make or break my decision. I'm hoping it'll work with speakers and have at least enough power to do efficient ones, but if not I'll just ask Marv what other options there are.
     
  9. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    ok @Marvey add me to the ethereal Studio Jr list of buyers because:

    a) I heard EC Studio large again at Mister R's and it's un fricking believable.
    b) can't go large coin on Studio large, thus Jr for HE1K.
    c) current EC BW1 is really good. but want to go really great and balanced.
    d) damn car repairs keep eating into my EC saving fun. screw cars.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The EC Studio run is 100% done for now. Details on Studio Jr. coming up.
     
  11. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    might have just wet myself.
    or I am getting too old.
    :D
     
  12. Dr. Higgs

    Dr. Higgs Boson - Member

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    Looking forward to more news on the Jr!
     
  13. zickson

    zickson New

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    Why not try to make a ECBASE plus with 4 300B tubes?
     
  14. MrButchi

    MrButchi Gear Master Europe

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    Bumpin' up. Are there news on the Junior front that EC might be confortable sharing @Marvey ?
     
  15. Cakecake

    Cakecake Guest

    I'd be interested in this.

    Also will EC ever consider speaker only tube amp (would it be cheaper without headphones section) ?
     
  16. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

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    Craig does those on request, just email him. They are cheaper than the headphone equivalents.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Trying to nail down final specifications. Likely 2A3, headamp (although speaker out is possible), cap interstage, transformers on output. My guess tuning would be slightly warmer than Studio. Shooting for under $3k. Depends on chassis.
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Let me ask. I'd like to explore this myself. A tube power amp using something like a preamp with a bit of gain like Freya.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Craig broke his arm and given the holiday season, has been hard to get a hold of him.
     
  20. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador

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    Wow, since the big meet? I hope he's ok...
     

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