Electrostatic Vs Everything Else

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Rotijon, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. Rotijon

    Rotijon Friend

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    Hey guys,

    For the longest time, i was not able to listen to a proper "High End" headphone setup until a few months ago, when i heard the HE1000 and HD800 paired with the Master 9 and Master 7.

    It needless to say, blew my mind on what was possible with headphones, prior to that, i was all speakers and iems.

    Reading the reviews on innerfidelity and old show reports etc. For some reason the SR009 and BHSE combo seems to keep popping up as the best of show, or at least one of the top contenders etc etc. Unfortunately, i dont think ill be able to try something like that unless i pick something up myself

    Im quite curious of the opinion here on this set up (or KGSSHV Carbon / Megatron / T2) compared to a proper HD800/HE1000 set up. Since Marv and many others ear's seem to correspond with mine, at least in terms of dac. I have not heard too many of the amps on the HD800 list.

    Lets use the Yggdrasil as base.

    What is this dynamic headphone grain people (head-case guys) seem to keep speaking of?
     
  2. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    It really comes down to personal preference. To me - electrostatic headphones offer neat tricks that I've never heard with dynamic driver, but they ultimately don't sound like what I want my music to sound like. All of the music reproduction I have heard in my life has been through some form of traditional dynamic driver, so that is what I am accustomed to listening to. Planars offer a sort of hybrid between the two worlds, but have their own unique traits.

    Find a way to audition electrostats and see if it is for you. The Koss ESP-950 system is a good way to get your toes wet. They do showcase some of the electrostatic traits.
     
  3. Ali-Pacha

    Ali-Pacha Friend

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    Electrostatic do sound extraodinarly even : absolutely free of grain and/or asperity. In comparison, most of dynamics are grainy / slow, and most of ortho have a narrow "treble-peak-of-death" that sound like sandpaper (especially HiFiMan).
    But this absolute even-ness has tis drawbacks for some listeners : artificial, plasticky, lack of meat around the bones, ethereal. Plus you need powerful after-market amps to move SR-00x asses.Even with these amps, the impact won't have the visceral feeling of the grain you may have with dynamics/orthos.
    Try, and pick-up what you like.

    Ali
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  4. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    I just compared HD800 modded to HE-6 with minor modifications. (dynamic vs planar)

    HE-6 sounds smoother, clearer in some passages without leaving out detail. HD800 might have some grain, or etchiness but they resolve better, in micodetail, therefore ultimately more refined. HD800 probably has the tendency to bring out things that you don't want to hear, more often than not. I personally like HE-6 smooth, but detailed presentation. HE-6 has better low end bass. HD800 has better upper-mid bass. What i like about HE-6 is its more laidback presenation, seems to be more calm and lifelike in some instances. But then on some recordings, HD800 wins because theres more grip on some midrange details. I hear more harmonics, timbre, or better dynamics. For me it is 50:50. Depends on the track.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. Prydz

    Prydz Friend

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    It will be interesting to see what the new Stax SR-L700 will provide.
    Pretty much seems like a "baby" SR-009 in terms of drivers.
     
  6. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Is this new?
     
  7. DrForBin

    DrForBin Friend

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    hello,

    i had the great good fortune to be part of the Massdrop STAX SR-307/SRM-323S loaner tour from Chang.

    all they did was make me want to listen to music, to the point where i wasn't heading for bed on time for a few nights that they were in the house.

    all this from a near entry level set of STAX.

    to me the music was just PRESENT. crystalline, open, ethereal, beautiful. ("Case of You" made me cry.)

    (MrsForBin fell in love with MiceBlue's SR-207 set up at a headfi meet at Bottle Headquarters.)

    i can see where they wouldn't be for everyone, there is a sense of effortlessness which some will interpret as thin or lacking or artificial.

    extreme downside: these do not isolate (either in or out) AT ALL.

    this could create some domestic disharmony, your kids hearing Trent and all those bad words (and singing along), you telling the kids to shut up so you can listen.

    if i could figure it out i suppose i would look for a used SRM-323S (if possible at about $500), a pair of SR-207's, and install the leather ear pads from the SR-507's and be done with it.

    but then, my hearing is Schitt.

    edit:

    just went through all the steps at Price Japan the STAX 3170 with transformer, stand, dust cover, fees, etc., etc., ,,, $1030. can't pull the trigger and pay the rent too. :(
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  8. Complin

    Complin New

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    I've been into headphones for some 40 years now and your description of electrostatics sounds nothing like any decent stat phone i've ever heard.
    Artificial and plasticky? Lack of meat around the bones? Sounds like these are problems with the source or source material being exposed
    I agree that some models like the Sr-007 need an amp with some ommph but the Lambda series and Sr-009 are relatively easily suited by modest and inexpensive amplification. The BHSE was specifically designed to drive the Sr-007 but the 009 is quite happy with more modest offerings.

    Over the decades I have tried many many types of dynamics and othos and have found the vast majority just cannot compete with the speed, neutrality, consistency and detail retrieval of electrostats. Although I have tried most of the high end cans I always keep returning to stats as my go to listening choice. They are not perfect, no headphone is, but I find their set of compromises far more acceptable than anything else. The only other two non stat phones I have really rated at this level are the Sony MDR-R10 and the current Sennheiser HD-800. If you are looking for visceral bass then best to go for speakers as I find bass on dynamics is often not well textured,rather one note or bloated at times. Stats wont give you an immediate wow or hi-fi rush like many dynamics or orthos, but if you appreciate their positive points they cant IMO be beaten for a very wide range of music

     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  9. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Interesting topic. I have no experience with stats. HD800 has the most richly textured bass i have heard though, on the same level with high-end studio monitors.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    For those who are not aware, I went into a foray with electrostatics a while ago. For a year, I had a T2DIY, went through a few STAX headphones until I eventually settled on a modified HFM HE Jade (which sounded most like an Orpheus). I found the sound of electrostatics seductive, but eventually returned to traditional dynamics.

    If there had been an ultimate SET amplifier to drive the stats (the best I've ever heard was Frank Cooter's from several years ago that used the glowey blue toxic mercury vapor rectifiers - Jude actually bought the gimp non-poisonousness version shown at the meets recently), I might have settled on electrostatics.

    I find all the above generalizations and comments about stats, dynamics, orthos to be true. Good, bad, indifferent, it's a matter of taste, which can change or evolve. Each kind of technology has its strengths and weaknesses. There are some good conversations on Changstar with n3rdling on this. I am not sure if they ever made it out of the old shoutbox.

    The SR2/307 are more neutral than the SR4/507. If I had to do it again, I'd probably take a KGST (find one used from a reputable builder or buy one from Spritzer) and a SR307 or SR009. Keep in mind that customer service (Yamasinc) in the USA is craptastic. Better off buying from Japan from a retailer who will take care of things for you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  11. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    [​IMG]

    That is all...
     
  12. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Blazing fast and crystal clear but they have problems with the plastic timbre, instrumental weight, and 1980s sparkly highs. Downtuned and distorted guitars sound unnatural on them;, death metal sounds ridiculous. I would like the opportunity to listen to Popul Vuh or Emperor's In the Nightside Eclipse on 'stats though

    I still prefer the HD 580/600/650 series in general despite the wooly bass; totl, $1000+ headphones like the HD 800 and stock planars just tend to f**k up in critical places despite sometimes being more resolving. Planars need a lot more R&D into driver and housing design and manufacturing so that good ones can be consistently mass produced. Dynamics have been around since Bell's original telephone so the r&d was done decades ago and they're still getting better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  13. TheFighter

    TheFighter New

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    I'm curious what is the best driver type in theory? dynamic, ortho, or stat?
     
  14. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Depends on which theories you subscribe to. Grain-less planar diaphragm perfection or Merv's crazy tension hypothesis
     
  15. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    Driver shape plays into presentation also. Ring Radiator anyone? Need more experimentation in driver design. I was really looking forward to the Nighthawk with the motor and basket design that went into it. More companies need to work on that aspect.
     
  16. Ali-Pacha

    Ali-Pacha Friend

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    Pro-tip : "...drawbacks for some listeners". BTW, that's pretty funny you're trying to convince one of the most severely affected Stax fan-boy through kind of authoritative argumentation :p

    I love the crystal-clear / absolute distorsion-free sound, the beautiful mids, silky-smooth highs, bass-texture, I also like the company's spirit, the way it operates (except importers' greedy behaviour), I have dozen of them @ home, BHSE on order, blah blah...but I feel I can see why some people from-dislike-to-hate them. And for me, it's precisely the grain-free aspect of sound, which can bring some listeners to the feelings I've mentioned. And I'm perfectly fine with that.|\/|

    009 are far more sensitive than 007mk1, you don't have the feeling there's something missing, even on lower amps, where 007mk1 feels congested and distant.
    But compare to some Sigma Pro, for instance. The latter is far less sensitive, not to mention loudness FR vs. neutral to slighlty bright FR of 009, but Sigs Pro do kick harder. Same thing with Lambda Sig vs. 009. Comparable sensitivity here, but Lambda kick harder on average amps.
    This kind of comparison makes me understand 009 large drivers also greatly benefit from powerful amps, and I mean current/slew rate, not voltage. Although, get an SRD-7 and blow your heaphones out with 2500 V P-P when you want :D

    As usual, YMMV, my 2 cents, and so on \/

    Ali
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
  17. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Some Stat love here.. Wow the "this-is-no-more-Changstar" statement is maybe true finally. :p

    Just kidding guys. ;)
     
  18. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    Actually monsieur, there is more stat love on the wings. I for one find the following equally engaging: With Yggdrasil being the DAC, ZD Super to HD 800 (with the Anax 2.0 mod) and the KGSShv to SR 009. The KG amp provides a very nice texture to the bass with the 009. I found the 007mk1 to be a little too dark in this chain.
     
  19. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    I know Koth . I'm a stat lover as well ;) .

    As I wrote somewhere else, I'd be glad to have here a thread dedicated to stats. HF threads are dead and most ackowledged people gave up there so what we read there is mostly garbage from a bunch of retarded ( no need to list the usual suspects right ? ) .
     
  20. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

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    If the hd800s didnt exist id be an sr009 guy I think

    I find the hd800s to have superior bass and resolving power which is more important to me than the perfect treble from the 009s

    Personally I don't think a planar has been built yet that can compete with the 009s and hd800s, Maybe the he6s? (with mods, and right amp) (havnt heard the abyss so maybe I'm wrong, although opinion on these are all over the place)


    I think the HEK had the potential to be on the same level with some more quality control and care given into the driver hut they kinda bored it up it seems

    edit: keep in mind I am a resolution and detail whore

    IMO you can't definitely just say the best headphone period. I think the best headphone depends on what you like. an example being the hd650. It is objective that the hd800 driver is superior to to that of the old 600s/650s but that doesnt mean some people prefer the more laid back, musical characteristic of those drivers. In fact Id say most do.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015

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