Focal Elear and Utopia Impressions at Source AV

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Utopia is one of those niche things, like Abyss, or SR-009. The fastest traditional dynamic on the market. So yeah, $4k is a lot, but what you gonna do? At least, I'd feel good owning it since the feel is luxurious with the build, solidity, leather, etc. I mean, at least I wouldn't feel like committing suicide from shame had I spent $3k on a Chi-Fi headphone that had the build quality worse than of OJ's proof of concept speakers hastily put together with shitty work-working tools using the cheapest wood at Home Depot. I can see the price go down, and since these are sold through dealers, customers who have relationships with dealers can often get a better price.

    Elear is at a good price. It's the street price for "refurbished" HD800s, all of which are really brand new, since this is how the retailers avoid getting into trouble from Sennheiser. I appreciate the HD800, but personally I won't touch them anymore, even modded. The Elear is a no brainer for me. Maybe I will give myself first dibs and buy this back after the loaner.

    HD650 at $499 at most places is too much. I wonder if we are to blame.

    Great question. I forgot to address this in the first post. Timbre and overtones was normal / natural. Even on the Utopia where there is a bit of a peak near the same area as HD800 causing some hardness and glare, the timbre was more natural. K7XX can have sharpness like ice picks (exaggerating, but you get the idea), DT770/880 is metallic to the extent that a tube amp is required, HD800 stock is just strange: tinny, glarey, grainy.
     
  2. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Greater midrange clarity, faster sounding and presentation akin to Accuton diamond drivers? Now I need to hear these.
    My number one question would be if the Utopia manages to sound natural throughout the midrange. After a very long time and almost giving up on it, I managed to force my HD800 into a direction that I would say is most akin to a more refined, smoother, more neutral HD600 and is close to what I generally consider speaker neutral.
    It would be super awesome if the Utopia managed to sound less colored (in an inherent driver coloration sense) than the HD800. I guess I will just have to listen (and compare) for myself.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The Utopias have that speed, the Elear not quite (but still faster than HD800).

    Neither have the frequency response "correctness" (albeit different interpretations) of the HD650/HD600. I still feel the HD650 (SBAF mods) has the best mids. I always hear and think of mids in relation to whats below and above it. Here's a tonality chart.

    HD800 stock
    Utopia (S tweak, decrease warmth a bit, decrease treble quite a bit from HD800)
    Ether (latest iteration - very slight tilt down)
    HD650 (add a bit of mid-bass)
    Elear / ZMF headphones (add a bit more of that mid-bass, add T50RP mid-treble)

    I hear no lower treble issues with the Elear, so this is why I am thinking if PEQ was applied broadly at 100Hz, say with Q of 0.5 and lowered 2db, Elear might be quite fantastic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    P.S. The one thing I was worried about with Elear is a possible depression somewhere in the upper mids. With some recordings, the guitars and snares didn't quite bite enough. In other words, a little bit of that Audeze LCD disease. I really need more hands on time to determine if the simple bass PEQ I suggested would fix this. Suckouts are hard to hear, unless you go through a lot of recordings. I tend to be more accepting of this than others, but I know many of the readers will not like this.
     
  5. lukeap69

    lukeap69 Pinoy Panther

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    As an aside France beat Germany 2-nil last night... :D
     
  6. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Yep, both of these options should be considered hi-end

    Agreed, but not because the Elear has better treble extension per se (which can be confused with air sometimes). But rather because the Elear's staging qualities give the perception of a lot of space. Great spatial qualities. Not as precise imaging as modded HD800 (perhaps the HD800's biggest strength) but big wide and fun

    Have to agree. The slight HD800 dynamic "grain" that STAX fanboys complain about does in fact exist. The Focals (particularly the Utopia) represent an improvement in the grain dept. And not because they're smoothing it over like the estats and orthos do. Goes back to the comments on midrange clarity....spectacular on the Utopia.

    Yes, I didn't notice too much on the Utopia's bass quality which could be said to be a good thing. The Elear's bass emphasis certainly sticks out. An unobtrusive bass performance that provides the foundation but doesn't fart at you is a highly underrated quality. Also want to mention (didn't think of this until now) that the Utopia has a great cohesive signature in the sense that the bass doesn't sound "different' than the mids and the mids don't sound "different" than the treble. (The Elear kinda fails on that mid-treble transition you could say). It's the sort of "cut from the same cloth" phenomena that I hear audiophiles talk about some times.

    Yes, and probably a big reason I prefer it as an end-game option (but not necessarily in terms of tonal balance)

    Might disagree here. Or maybe not. I agree that the glare or stridency region is not irregular, but I do think there is some unevenness else where. Or maybe it's not an FR issue so much as it is a "grain" or texture thing.

    Have to agree again. I've never felt the HD800 driver was "fast" either. Rather, it is highly resolving and digs deep into the micro stuff, but not necessarily fast on the macro level. For those that aren't familiar with how we communicate about sound, this might sound confusing. I remember you used to use that car analogy with regard to acceleration. Hard to describe in my own terms. The Utopia in particular is quite fast sounding. Must be that beryllium?
     
  7. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    So Utopia is brighter than Ether? I really hope that my 5 minute impression of the particular Ether I heard doesn't quite line up with what you heard, but I heard it as a lot less bright than HD800(S) but as brighter than my HD600. The treble bugged me. I think my modded HD800 sounded less bright than the Ether.

    I also think that the HD600 driver doesn't sound as effortless in the midrange as the HD800 driver. The upper midrange annoys me (the 3-4kHz bump). I'm not sure how much better the HD650 is there.
     
  8. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Agree with this point. Remember that HD800 can seem slightly recessed or thinned out in this region because of dip and made worse by peak in sibilance region. I noticed the HD800 was not as forward with vocals vs the Focals :D Which makes me believe that they are closer to the HD600 in terms of upper mid tone, but I could be wrong here.
     
  9. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    Just hoping my Elears bass is tight.

    Wondering how it does on a tube amp and NOS DAC right about now.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It sounds like you might have heard an early Ether. The Utopia's tonal signature is very much that like.
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Elear's nominal impedance is 32 ohms. That's pretty low and you want to maximize damping factor. Given the Elear's propensity to be punchy and also "looser" than the Utopia, best to avoid OTL tube amps or tube amps with crappy (high bass distortion) output transformers. I actually noticed the same thing on the Utopia as well. It's why I moved over from one particular tube amp to the McIntosh headamp during my audition at Source AV. I do not like sloppy or soft bass.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yeah, Elear lower treble was fine, but mid and upper treble sounded were less smooth and rougher than Utopia. The Elear has that same T50RP mid-treble thing where tape hiss / defintion is emphasized. The Utopia did not do this.
     
  13. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    I believe that with certain pad and ring mods you can get the upper midrange to actually become too prominent with the HD800. Most notably the region around 2-3kHz. But yes, stock HD800 is recessed in the upper mids. More forward vs stock HD800 (and thus closer to HD650) would be a really good thing.

    @Marvey: It could've also been the setup, or maybe I'm just allergic to most orthos in the treble. I also generally dislike planar tweeters in speakers but I guess that's a different story.
     
  14. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    ahhh thats what I was afraid of. I already know what to do this month then.
     
  15. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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  16. Huxleigh

    Huxleigh Almost "Made"

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    I thought that the Elear's nominal impedance was 80 ohms? 32 ohms could be problematic for me, given the rather high OI of the Sonett.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Low enough. It's not 300 or 600 ohms. I'll measure it when I get it in, unless Tyll already has.
     
  18. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    it does say 80 ohms but elsewhere it says 32 ohms. That is why I had just a little bit of hope for it not totally failing on my amp. The kennerton Vali did decently at 32 ohms but still not the best match.

    I will probably pick up the CAYIN IHA-6 and a balanced cable. for 1k thats a really good amp Kinda bright but clean and clear with controlled bass.
     
  19. imac2much

    imac2much Friend

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    Wait, the Elear was tuned by Zach or you mean it has similar FR and tonality of a ZMF headphone? I'm curious since I loved the Omni sound but the weight and clamp got to me which is why I'm planning to sell it.

    I just got an Ether C and an HD650 (though currently only using the 650 since I don't have any balanced amp yet to used with my Ether cable yet). Do you feel the Elear would be an upgrade over these two headphones? How would it compare to these and the ZMF Omni?

    Man... I may need to sell off all my headphone collection soon in order to justify this purchase, haha!
     
  20. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Some thoughts in summary:

    To reiterate, both of these headphones are the real deal. For those that think I'm an HD800 diehard fanboy that's only because I see the HD800 as the least worst alternative to all the other stuff I hear (estats and orthos and BAs, oh my!). The Elear is not what I would consider an HD800 challenger for obvious reasons (different more fun tonal balance, still a step or two down in plankton and resolution IMO). What the Elear really does is sit as an end-game option for those that are looking for that uber-650. As was mentioned before, the Elear offers a clear upgrade over the HD650 in terms of bass cleanliness and extension. (That's the one thing I just can't get over, even listening to Marv's modded HD650). It also is on par with HD650 resolution. I'd need a direct and longer comparison to be sure on that, but again, we're talking Al/Mg dynamic driver that does the plankton stuff pretty damn well. I want to reiterate on the Elears EXCELLENT staging abilities. I think Marv is of the opinion that that sort of stage placement is a bit more impressionistic as opposed to the HD6xx type of staging, but to my ear, I hear more openness and I get more of that live performance sensation. I suspect the Elear will be popular on this board and others for it's obvious strengths I mentioned at the top. Big stage, big bass, big sound. It works here. I'd consider the Elear as a fun headphone because I'd actually want to listen to it and I know it's going to have a wide genre bandwidth. So yes, final word for the HD650 fanboys, consider this option.

    The Utopia is in fact comparable to the HD800 with great technical ability and neutral tonal balance. The Utopia will undoubtedly improve with even better source components (btw the McIntosh DAC/amp is no chump) and maybe even 100hrs extra burn-in. While I do not feel the Utopia has noticeable tonal faults on first listen, there might very well be room for improvements with strategic PEQ. (Yes, dynamics respond better to PEQ, don't ask me why). Looking back at some of the impressions in the other thread reminded me of another point....macro dynamics on the Utopia did not seem as explosive as the HD800. Which is a big knock for me as that's one of my top priorities. On the other hand there is a certain seductive quality that drew me into the Utopia, apparantly more than Marv. No the Utopia is not as analog and fluid sounding as the Elear and I agree on the comments regarding rigidity. But there is a subtlty and plankton retreival that's drawing me in, which is high praise when it's sitting next to the HD800. So yes it's trading blows with the champ in a lot of categorizes. I'm going to need some more time with the Utopia to decide whether it's really an upgrade over my HD800.

    Sidenote: Compared the HD800S to my modded HD800. Really no advantage to owning the S. I hear it as just as sibilant (really need to remove the dust-cover) and more compressed throughout the spectrum.
     

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