Focusrite RedNet (AOIP Nervosa)

As noted above, yes, I see avoiding USB entirely is AOIP's single biggest 'feature'.
And that it can output AES and SPDIF is taking full advantage of this ethernet as an audio data path.

There are of course other opinions and priorities.

JJ

 

Funny you mention that. I have a PCIe sound card installed in the PC I'm typing on, which is situated in my listening room such that I can reach Yggdrasil with a 3m coax SPDIF cable (Blue Jeans, nothing fancy). Just today, kind of in between considering AOIP, I decided to route it to Yggdrasil and link it to the same zone as the Microrendu so I could just swap Yggdrasil inputs to A/B the two. Without hesitation I can say that coax SPDIF is my preference over USB in and I'm not sure I could blind test the CD transport vs Roon > SPDIF > Yggdrasil successfully. Maybe it's something in my USB setup, maybe it's real, maybe she's born with it, maybe it's maybelline.

In any event, I need to do more listening to files through SPDIF. I can play 24/192 perfectly fine through this 3m cable so that limitation isn't a concern. And since I am currently prioritizing physical media over files which is just a personal choice, not an indictment of performance of one vs the other, it makes sense to me to continue with this setup for awhile and if I find shortcomings or reasons to move files up in the priority, I'll investigate AOIP more in-depth.

As it stands, I hope i didn't waste anyone's time with my inquiry and am appreciative of the input.

 

Even at 192KB sample rate the data thru put is miniscule compared to 100MB or gigabit capable data ports

When I run at 44.1 into my Yggdrasil A2 (which is my 'standard' SR) the data thruput is in the KB/s range.

Which means a Thunderbolt to ethernet converter should have no problem with the data rate.

The one possible snag is that the dante network is a separate set of network protocols from those that are used to deal with the internet and that your local network uses.
So setting up a 2nd network 'on top of' or beside your existing network is required and while this should work I can't say I know of anyone with this configuration to verify that claim.

Of course there are other alternatives as well, such as a dedicated music server or a Pi or other µcontroller based dedicated systems etc.

JJ

 

Yeah it wasn't the bandwidth I was worried about, it was the docking-for-ethernet portion that gave me pause because there's a conversion step in between. At least I think there is?

 

Yeah the conversion is in there, but that should be handled by the OS.
The 'issue' or potential 'issue' will be if the dante network and the virtual soundcard will install properly nested inside these additional s/w layers, and probably the only way to tell will be to either ask dante or try it yourself, or even more likely, both.

The Mac Osx SHOULD make all of this transparent to the user and it SHOULD just work.
Shoulda, woulda, sorta kinda, is rife with exceptions.
And really the only real way to tell will be to try the install and see what happens.

But 1st I'd contact Dante and see what they say.
They might just say no way José, in which case, unless you are a driver and s/w code writer, an alternative solution would be the best bet.

JJ

 

USB was never designed for the type of data flow that digital audio needs and to boot it wasn't designed to be noise and error free either.
These types of design parameters can really mess with the digital audio stream as it travels on the USB 'network', and other devices (keyboards, mice, printers, scanners etc.) will compete with (and add their own signals etc.) and they don't care about such issues as noise and jitter etc.

Audio over USB is the bastard step child of the bunch.
It is convenient and will usually just connect up and deliver those digits and bits, just not very graciously nor without 'additional' complications.

And until Schiit (or someone else) comes up with a suitable solution, USB will be fraught with and hampered by these limitations.
And unless I miss my guess the Schiit USB implementation should prove to be a worthy contender as a suitable means to deliver digital audio with the best of them.
That is, when it comes out.

But even now an EITR or Gen-5 card ain't no slouch as it is several steps above any other USB implementation I have ever heard.

As usual YMMV

JJ

 

The problem of Dante is not so much the bandwidth but the latency. AOIP seems to flood the network with small transactions, which stress the networking components. That's also why WiFi is out of the question.

When I had mine connected to the network, internet was crapping out every time I played music, on every other devices. I bought a beefier router, with dual core CPU, but it behave the same.

 

This thing has any benefit using it with chord hugo 2 ?

 

Hooked up a RedNet D16 tonight. Wow the ease of this setup, practically like plugging in a USB cable. Feel like I'm missing some big joke here. Compared to reading the convoluted shitshow that "Dummies" Pi2AES thread has become, this is like ABC 123. I'm dumber than an ape and it worked with no hassle. What a huge relief. Made the right choice to get this over the Pi2AES.

Maybe it was a nightmare for the early adopters or having a bunch of stuff connected, but a single computer to a switch then RedNet box, download 3 programs, check off some routing boxes in the Dante controller and that's it. There's some other options you can adjust like buffer, channels, bitrate, etc.

Have it hooked up to a Modi Multibit for now (Val2/HD650). It's not that much of a dramatic difference compared to the Eitr, but it's smoooooooooth sounding. Gets rid of the slight digital haze and rounds off some of the harsher edges. A little more clarity, you can hear more trailing reverb, volume gradients and other tiny details. Better imaging and focus too. It's still a Modi Multibit and you can get most of this with an Eitr. It's clear the DAC is capping the potential of this box. Look forward to hooking this up to the Convert-2 in the morning.

Just wanted to say don't let some nerd still using a 1998 eMachines PC dissuade you from picking up one of these boxes. I wish this kind of AOIP stuff was in every audio product.

 

Network load on E7470 laptop with 4 stereo streams to Focusrite D16 at 88.2 KHz


My lab has four computers with VSC, two D16, a unDAES-O, and several RDL SF-ND2. Never have any issues even with all running simultaneously, different source / destination pairs, different pairs running different rates concurrently, other ethernet traffic. This is a blessing for ability to change routings, setups, etc. Especially useful for lab listening evaluation, measurements, etc.

 

“shit show“ seems a bit harsh, no?

Michael

P. S. I am the designer of the PI2AES so I “might” be a bit biased!

 

Also for $2K+ it damn well better be easy!!!

 

I spent 3 hours yesterday trying to set it up without success. Not that straightforward on a Macbook if you don't work a lot with computers beyond Gmail and Office.

 

It’s a shit show if you need it on your home network, for some reason.

Back when I had a RN3, plugging in to my home router would cause the WiFi to stop working reliably. My roommate wasn’t too happy.

I upgraded to a beefier router (RT-AC68U), with dual core but it was the same shit show.

These need managed switches and more setup than a network noob or simple audio enthusiast would care to do.

The way I ended up using mine was plugged in directly to the source (PC or Mac mini with TB2 to Ethernet adapter) and let them auto-negotiate. At least they handle M$ 169.x.x.x networks so you just need to plug it in a dedicated Ethernet port.

 

Which model do you have ?

 

You shouldn’t be buying any of this. If you’re familiarity with computers is equivalent to that a white girl at Starbucks, all real pro gear is hopeless. Just plug in Schiit over USB. Don’t worry about cars you can’t drive because you can’t drive stick.

If you want to record something get something super simple like the cheap MOTU M2/4, SSL 2(+), or SPL Crimson if you want to flex. All the knobs do stuff. The routing is braindead or hardwired. You don’t have to configure your computer endlessly like with a cheap Focusrite. You won’t be getting shitty broken hardware like Focusrite Scarlet and Presonus.

Even the fairly simple (if you know how to operate an analog console or mixer), UAD and RME stuff that sounds like shit and is used by MacBook producers everywhere, requires more care because of the mixing software.

 

Rednet 3. Already getting some help from friendly SBAF folks over PM.

If I get it to work I'll write up a guide on "how to make Rednet work if you're a white girl at Starbucks".

 

I wish they made a Phonitor with inputs. All their other gear has this nice aesthetic (and let's be honest, if you're spending that kind of money the aesthetics matter a little bit), but then there's the Crimson like this ugly stepchild outta nowhere.

 

The Crimson is all knobs and switches, no digital bs drivers to stump you. Of course the drivers for it are poop for anything beyond listening to music and recording a real guitar and vocals. DI? Well it has severe latency...