Fuck MQA - Bob Stuart is a wanker

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by gaspasser, Jan 29, 2017.

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  1. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    @Mio-chan, This kind of political rhetoric is not permitted. Take time and read what is expected here. I’ve requested some time off for you, so consider yourself warned at the least.
     
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  2. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Good idea to keep it to audio and tech. Maybe the shortcomings of some companies and some wins too... Everyone makes mistakes, but the current political stuff becomes useless "heat" real fast here.

    There is one thread for political stuff and usually only long-timers discuss stuff there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  3. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    @Mio-chan and anyone else, Qobuz appears to be about as anti-MQA as any company. I know when they found out (via the Audiophile community) about MQA 16/44.1 format (so called "MQA CD's") being delivered to them via certain labels, they removed/replaced said MQA format with real PCM 16/44.1, and stated they are not interested in MQA as a regular format on their service (in that diplomatic way companies often do).

    I myself try to reward companies (e.g. Qobuz, Schitt, etc.) whom are congruent with my values. That said I am still for now a reluctant subscriber of Tidal for now because they carry many electronica genre titles that Qobuz does not.
     
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  4. YMO

    YMO it's not drinking alone if you're on Zoom

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    MQA is now old, the new snake-oil technology is AQCD.

    Almost 40 years of 16/44 on a CD and for the most of us who play digital, it's good enough.
     
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  5. skem

    skem Friend

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    my reading of that is AQCD is a 16/44 red book CD, just with higher quality physical media. What a great idea in the era of downloadable FLAC files! Where do I invest?
     
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  6. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Is this a Japanese company? Seems like the Japanese have always had a snake oil fetish for $improved$ CD media. I recall the gold CD's here in the US, in the early nineties (or was it late eighties?) that I somehow managed to resist buying.
     
  7. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    Same concept as JVC XRCD, which has been around since the 1990's. Similar claims that using alternative materials and cutting cleaner pits produce better signals from the disc. JVC also claims to have a superior recording mastering process.

    And... it was inevitable that someone would release MQA on one of these premium style CDs.
    http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/feature/Worlds_First_HiRes_CD_by_Universal_Music_Japan
     
  8. YMO

    YMO it's not drinking alone if you're on Zoom

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    XRCD as a production method was snake-oil I believe. The Alan Yoshida mastered XRCD releases were not snake-oil, most of his mastering jobs were too notch, hunt them down if you can.
     
  9. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex Grumpiest admin

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    Two months off.
     
  10. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

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    MQA seems like a fad to me

    In terms of pure quality it's hard to argue beyond 24/192 PCM and in terms of efficient quality its hard to argue beyond 24/48 PCM

    What I would like to see in the audio world is a set of standards for PCM downloads that would speak to high quality, could even call it High Dynamic Range / HDR audio or something like that and have different levels bronze/silver/gold/platinum based on certain required objective benchmark traits of the master/audio recording. Heck they could even sell people corresponding hardware certified to work with and fully benefit from the various levels of master quality

    all we get is bit resolution and sampling rate now, which doesn't tell you much when it still can be garbage in master = hires garbage out pcm download. We can sample audio now before buying and look up others experiences but having standards like this may actually motivate labels to consider putting out truly high quality master recordings rather than adapting masters made for airpods to hires and offering that as the only hires option.

    But if they saddle it with DRM junk and proprietary format it would be another waste of time
     
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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  11. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    But deblurring, bro...
     
  12. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I've been monitoring the Mastering Engineers group on FB in regard to MQA. They don't see much of a benefit in implementing MQA in their workflow and treat it more as a nuisance. A few weeks ago there was also a thread where some engineers were unaware that their masters were available on Tidal as MQA "Authenticated".
     
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  13. JeffYoung

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    Yeah, I was a little disappointed to see Metrum (and later Sonnet) offer support for MQA. Not that they really push it, but still, I'd rather have seen them make a principled stand.
     
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  14. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    That wouldn't really be anything to do with PCM, or even digital, but would apply to all audio. Time to wander around the party until finding the loudness-wars conversation :)
     
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  15. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Your exactly right. However, digital audio has historically been "repackaged" (to choose a term) every few years. These top down driven market efforts seems almost inevitable. What I like about @Ruined suggestion is that it is from the opposite direction - what if the next repacking contained something musical consumers (or at least a segment of them) actually wanted?!?

    Nah, that would be too smart...
     
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  16. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

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    Yup that would be the idea. Keep the format that works with everything (24/192 PCM/FLAC) but have objective grading for the master that indicates it's level of "HDR," like a good Fleetwood Mac album might be labelled "HDR Gold". This you'd think would make studios strive to put out a better product

    While this might sell software it's also a chance to introduce people to enthusiast hardware; more powerful gear with better SNR/distortion can get HDR Platinum whole entry level enthusiast stuff might get HDR bronze. And junky earbuds won't get anything. And this might incentivize hardware companies to ensure their implementations are done well when making enthusiast gear

    A system like this if done right could both regain trust in 24/192 pcm downloads and also get more people interested in high end hifi hardware. Consumers would understand the HDR concept as being better and more dynamic because of how well known it is for TVs.
     
  17. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Yes, but to bring up the ever-present "but...", and to undermine my own previous reply/statements:

    1) As someone with strong objectivist leanings/sympathies, I have to admit there are no "objective" measures that would work this way. For example, the better sounding gear often has objectively more distortion than the inferior.

    2) Even if there were objective criteria we could use, the label's/distribution system would abuse and manipulate it. Many "junky earbuds" would inevitably end up with a higher rating than better sounding ones.

    3) The historical cycle of repackaged digital has always trumped up "getting more consumers interested in Hi Fi" but it never works. Indeed, the consumer keeps signaling (through their buying habits and behavior) that convenience trumps quality, and middle-to-high rates of lossy compression is all they want and need. Only the few, the proud, the "audiophile" want more, and they already have their own niche market.
     
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  18. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

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    You are probably right, but with all the sites dedicated to tracking dynamic range, forums, etc, you'd think there be some market for this especially in hires downloads?

    Idea would be, studio does all the work on a high fidelity master, output that to 24/192 DR intact, and then put out a DR-compressed MP3. Make the DR compression part of the prep for MP3 encoding rather than the only version available...

    Something like "HDR audio" would give studios an excuse to resell all the botched remasters and I am sure many people would like the opportunity to buy proper masters.

    Although, I will say sometimes the dynamic range stuff is a bit of a witch hunt, as there are ways you can increase loudness and essentially reduce dynamic range without it being notably perceptable due to psychoacoustics. I've heard some masters with loudness increased that were a disaster, and other ones that looked like they might be a disaster from the waveform but actually sounded fine.
     
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  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I, for one, never had any in the first place. But then, I listen to music under water.
     
  20. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    Isn't that exactly what MQA is claiming to do?
     
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