General Speaker Advice and Recommendations

Hi friends,

I've been using the built-in speaker from one of the monitors I had for watching movies on my desk setup, but I decided to give that monitor to my brother who needs it for school/studying. Now I have some extra space + need for some bookshelf /nearfield speakers.

I'm not experienced at all with speakers, only one I've tried was the JBL LS305, which I quite enjoyed. Is there anything else you would recommend around that price range? I've also heard Vanatoo T0 are solid, but it was from youtubers whose opinions I now take with a grain of salt. If you guys need more information from me, please let me know.

Thanks

 

Probably powered monitors since I’m kind of clueless on how to match speaker gears tbh lol. I just got a Modi Multibit for the desk setup while the Gungnir Multibit will be with my main headphone setup. Do powered monitors need sub as well?

 

@ChaChaRealSmooth Thanks Dan! Will do some reading on those two you mentioned.

 

HELP ME REPLACE MY MAGGIES

BACKGROUND

Over six years ago, while in grad school I demoed at local dealers a bunch of speakers up to the $1,500 mark. All I remember are Magnepan MG12, KEF LS50, and some Martin Logan electrostats. Of all the speakers I listed to, the Maggies were the only ones that made instruments sound believable. A few months later when a pair of Magnepan 1.6QR showed up on Craigslist, I pounced. Been using them since in a video 2.0 setup.

Over time, the Maggies have started to bug me due to:

• lack of low bass and kick
• compressed dynamics
• power sucking crossover / super inefficient
• mechanical engineering (things like stands and wire terminals) that is decades behind
• EDIT: narrow sweet spot / poor off-axis performance

They also bug my wife due to their imposing physical dimensions.

RECENT SPEAKER DEMOS

I've demoed over the past year a number of speakers in the $1,500 to $12,000 range, at a couple different shops:

1. Focal Kanta No. 2: Beryllium tweeter. Heard with both Naim and McIntosh electronics. Both times wanted to gouge my ears out. Horribly irritating and fatiguing.
2. Revel Performa 228Be (same shop as above): Also a Beryllium tweeter, but this was surprisingly more listenable. Neutral, not annoying, but also overall kind of forgettable. Probably my second favorite pair I've heard, which is saying something about how bad I think most other speakers sounded. Subsequently found out there's a 60-75% dealer markup on Revel, which leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Screw you Harmon Kardon.
3. Paradigm Persona 3F (different shop now): Not only Beryllium tweeter, but Beryllium mid as well. Impressive resolution, but after 5-10 minutes also wanted to gouge my ears out. Even worse than the Kantas. Have heard these on my Ragnarok and a Plinius SA-103 Class A monster amp. Same impressions, though better on Plinius.
4. Spendor D7: Less bright and revealing than Paradigm. Too much bass rolloff. Not great soundstaging (sound came more from speakers). Forgettable.
5. Aerial Acoustics 6T and 7T: By far my favorite. Conveyed the emotion of Dvorak's cello concerto. Sounded great on Weezer - Blue Album. Comparatively good bass response to the other speakers I've demoed, especially the 7T. More details below.
6. KEF LS50: Given Stereophile raved about with the Ragnarok, wanted to hear with mine. Sounded fine at lower volumes. Compressed at anything approaching normal volumes, too metallic sounding, and too much bass roll off (expected this).
7. KEF R11: Heard in different room than ##3-6, and on Parasound integrated. Sounded anemic, though better bass than LS50. Similar metallic sound. Don't think I'm a KEF guy.
8. Klipsch Forte III (same room as #7): Loved the sensitivity. Did sound more like a rock concert. Unfortunately, I hate how rock concerts sound and always wear Etymotic earplugs. Don't think pairing with Parasound was good.
9. Sonner Legato Duo (different room, on Luxman gear): Sounded fine. Seems similar to the Aerials, but like a cheap knock-off of it due to the crappier cabinet. Made in NH. Similar drivers, but uses Seas for woofers instead of Scanspeak. Pass.

So far, the only speakers I've heard that I could replace my Maggies with would be the Aerials. I think this is in large part because I could listen to a variety of music for a long time without wanting to gouge my ears out like many of the above. They made classical sound awesome, while still making poorly recorded rock/punk and other modern music sound good/listenable.* They had good depth, and by far the best low bass response of the above.

7/29/20 edit: More detailed information re: Aerial Acoustics 7T and 6T drivers here: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thre...as-made-in-china.651745/page-20#post-24579384

Spoiler: old driver information from this post

For drivers, it looks like the 7T uses:

• customized version of 1" soft-dome ScanSpeak Discovery R2604/8330 Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter.
  
• customized version of 6" SB Acoustics SB17NRX2C35-4 6” with paper cone.
  
• two Scanspeak 7" woofers. From the website: "Twin 7.1″ (180mm) with cast magnesium frame, rigid bilaminate composite cones, large magnets, 1.5″ coils, long and linear Xmax". Maybe a customized version of the 18W (Fs of 25 Hz)?.

Conservative estimate for above 7T driver costs are maybe $550 per speaker wholesale ($70 + $70 + $200*2). The 7T retails for $11,000, and I know there's a 40% dealer markup. Think the cabinet construction also drives up the cost. More info here: https://aerialacoustics.com/7t/. Used 7T prices are in the $5,000 - $6,000 range. I can buy new B-stock for mid $6,000s. The 6T is similar, except it uses a 5” SB Acoustics midrange and two 5.9" Scanspeak woofers, and the cabinet doesn't have as many pressed layers or braces. 6T retails for $7,000. Used prices are in the mid $3,000s, could buy new B-stock for mid $4,000s.

PLEA FOR HELP

Given that the speakers are in our living room, looks are a factor here. My wife doesn't like wood finishes on speakers, which basically leaves me with black. I could probably do titanium/silver/grey as well. I need something shorter than the Maggies (pretty easy to do) and ideally narrower than the Maggies (also pretty easy).

However, given all the reading I've done here and elsewhere I'm concerned about overpaying for "audiophile" speakers. I like the idea of bigger woofers given all the benefits discussed, but finding them in a good-looking package has proved difficult. I won't be able to use something like a Klipsch Heritage line ("too boxy"); pro audio stuff (neither of us love the look); or Pure Audio Project Trio15 / Classic 15 (I don't personally like the look of the Trio, and the new Classic15 is like 28" wide and constantly has had the price jacked up during the rampup to preorder, now to $8,000).

I don't have the time or skills to DIY, and even if I did, the final looks would likely not pass muster. Does anyone have any suggestions for other floorstanders to look at? Haven't yet heard the Legacy Focus SE (probably pushing it size-wise) or the Dynaudio Contour 60, the latter which I could hear at another local shop. Another local dealer that used to sell Aerial is trying to sell me on Canton floorstanders. Looks like Canton builds their own drivers and cabinets in house in Germany. Not much of a following in the US. Thought about Salk, but can't demo easily in New England.

Not opposed to adding a subwoofer either. Can do one in a front corner. So far I think I like Rhythmik F12/G, but haven't demoed anything. Two subs may be pushing it in the living room.

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*Given I typically use Focal Utopia for headphones out of the Ragnarok + Yggdrasil Analog 2, I thought it was odd that I really disliked so many of the speakers above, especially the ones that also used Beryllium in the tweeter/mid.

 

I have a pair of Devore Fidelity Gibbon Nines. I love these speakers. I went through a lot speakers over the years. Once I got these I stopped (at least on my primary system...). That was 5 yrs ago. They are great.

I would recommend to check out the Devore line. They’re all pretty transparent. Most of they are also gorgeous. Specifically the orangutan series. The Nines, that I have are no longer made. However the O/93 are pretty much the descendants of my mine. They are beautiful.

They’re all hand made in New York. Call them up, John Devore will answer and talk to you about speakers and components all day.

Most of my audio gear I’m always trying to improve or replace, whatever. Since I bought these I have never wanted to replace. Cannot recommend highly enough.

Awesome guy. Awesome company. Awesome speakers.

https://www.devorefidelity.com/

 

Might be worth it to send an e-mail to Rick Craig: http://www.selahaudio.com

A while back I was in a similar situation. I had an idea about the drivers I wanted to use, and Rick was interested in testing the woofers, so he did the crossover and had his cabinet guy route the baffles. I plopped the drivers and crossovers into some PE boxes (back when PE had decent pre-built cabinets).

But, even Rick's complete speakers offer significant value.

 

Given your impressions on the other speakers Canton could be up your alley, but only the ones with their own ceramic drivers. That means the Reference K series (and the online exclusive A series) only. The big K series (3K, 2K and 1K) speakers are definitely smoother than something like the Paradigm Persona while still being quite resolving. I like their voicing, seems very close to my definition of neutral. Overall the value proposition isn't that great, but it never is when buying new speakers. They're still one of my favorite traditional floorstanders overall, especially if smoothness is one of your main priorities. They do a lot right and don't do much wrong IMO. Could be worth checking out.
I'm not sure how close the A55 gets to the 3K. The A55 is a way better value on paper, but the smaller A45 was too held back by the small woofers for me.

BTW: I have my doubts about the PAP Classic 15. The diffraction/reflections from the side panels around the widebander could sound dreadful if they don't employ any damping to - well - damp the sides of the frames.
I've also seen that you can get Dunlavy speakers for cheap nowadays. I haven't heard any yet, but I've always been curious how they sound. Mostly because they're one of the few true first-order designs.

 

fwiw - I have heard lots of stuff over the years. Aerials have always sounded good to me. Likewise the suggestion about Devore. I would see if you could listen to Joseph Audio or Silverline, nice sound and not crazy priced. Not sure of models though.

 

I noticed the wood comment after I replied. But I kept it up there, Bc I’m just always going to preach the greatness of DeVore.

Agree and disagree on bass articulation. I think John makes a mistake when he says his speakers aren’t picky about placement. It took me about year of futzing, but now I have them placed right and the articulation of the bass is very clear now. I can hear and feel every note. Is it the best I’ve ever heard? No. But I would say it’s equal to the rest of the speaker, which is high praise.

Also worth noting they’re very transparent speakers and whatever is upstream will affect the sound, including bass detail and articulation drastically.

All that said, a 2.5 way speaker with a big passive woofer won’t be the final word in the bass detail category.

Any way. This isn’t a thread about DeVores, so I’ll shut up now

Edit: also, thank you for the compliment!! Where are my manners!

 

in your price ange, the Aerial 7T are very good. Id also suggest b&w 804 D3. their new continuum driver is definitely special/ refined. The contour 60 are also worthy of audition. the downside for those 3 are how inneficient they are

Id add JBL l100 classic, Tannoy legacy line. Ive never heard the PAP and these are very intriguing as well.

Personally, im done with any metal mids drivers. KEF, Canton, Revel, ect to me, they all share that metallic sounding feeling and i cant stand metal mids for long.

 

Indeed. Alone they still pack a surprising punch for their size but when connecting a sub it cuts frequencies below 100hz and opens up the mids. I use a Emotiva BasX 8 inch sub with mine. Makes for a great inexpensive nearfield setup (when you could pick up the T0 b-stock for $400).

@zerodeefex What sub do you use?

 

Thanks ZD! I found a used T0 for 250 and I'm enjoying them quite a lot. They're quite a different listening experience compared to headphones. Which subwoofer do you recommend with the T0? And If I add a sub, can I use them also as living room speakers? (medium/medium-large size room)

 

I can't say enough good things about Usher's floorstanders. I had a similar issue, attempting to find something that handled Converge as effectively as Copeland. I ended up with 6381's (which wouldn't work for your aesthetic restrictions and are no longer made) but theres a pair of Dancer series on US Audiomart (https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...ni-one-dmd-like-new-condition-original-owner/)

I've heard this model, but didn't end with them simply because I wanted to go bigger on cabinet size. I recall rich, forward midrange, treble had a bit of bite but felt smooth overall, and hit harder than you'd expect. Even keeled with blast beats or orchestral swells, just felt like excellent all-rounders.

The Dancers above could easily be painted black and would still be furniture-grade in looks, but Usher in general is worth considering.

 

Wanted to respond earlier but couldn't due to my unlawful incarceration.

I read your post twice but didn't find any mention of your room size or how the speakers are situated in the room. Are they against a wall? In between an entertainment unit with a TV? Important stuff to consider.

I'm not sure how much specific brand/model recommendations will help you since speakers come in so many shapes and sizes. It seems from your own research and listening you've narrowed it down to more compact tower speakers with long-term listen-ability as a priority. Off the shelf drivers in a monkey coffin are the most common type of high-end speaker and as you've heard some of them can sound like ass and some very good. I would encourage auditioning as much as humanly possible before buying because $6000 is a lot of dough. I would look at local classifieds for anything that looks interesting and meets your aesthetic requirements and arranging an audition, even if you're just punting the experience is invaluable.

I like the Living Voice Auditorium series for compact (read: not huge) floor standers but they do not have much of a dealer presence in North America. Please tell us a bit more about your room.

 

Thanks for pointing this out and for taking the time to read (twice!).

I've attached a sketch of the room with rough measurements. Ignore the speaker toe-in and angle as that's just my bad drawing. I've also attached a few pictures.



A few other notes re: the room:

• Have approximately 2.5' from front baffle of speaker to front wall.
• Hardwood floors. Area rug is a pretty thick 8x10' wool/jute rug, with a 0.25" felt pad underneath.
• Over both windows we have both blackout liners and the curtains visible in the pictures.
• The rear right from listening position is a doorway leading to the foyer. Foyer also has stairs going up to the second floor.
• Left sidewall is the doorway to the kitchen, small dining room, and another foyer for stairs leading down to garage.

Also forgot to mention that we have a toddler, so grills are important. Been pretty good with all the equipment so far, but don't want to take chances.

We are renting now and saving up for a home. Next place I'll have more flexibility in placement, etc. so don't want to buy something that's only good in this room. Given the large volume of space with the couple open doorways, my thought was to get a larger floorstander now that would also work in a dedicated room later.

As far as sound quality priorities, I didn't mean to imply that long-term listenability was the be-all-end-all. It's just that with nearly all the speakers I listened I didn't want to listen for more than 15-20 minutes because fatigue had set in. I'd like to retain the clarity and transparency of the Maggies, but address the concerns re: low bass extension, kick, and dynamics. I care less about the sensitivity as I can just upgrade my amp later. EDIT: Would also like something with better off-axis performance. Maggies have a narrow sweet spot.

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Minor update re: auditions: another local dealer has Devore and Dynaudio. Unfortunately they only have the Dynaudio Contour 20 (standmount), not the Contour 60. I can hear the Gibbon Super 9 and X as well as the O96. Should be able to demo the Canton floorstanders soon as well.