HateDis650 (oh God the dark side please don’t)

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by rhythmdevils, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    I have conducted a thorough psychological evaluation of rhythmdevils posts and conclude he is a potential candidate for my newly proposed annual SBAF 'Golden Goal Post Award.'

    The ideal candidate would demonstrate a pattern of unhappiness (or at least only minimal temporary happiness) with gear. Best case, they have vacillating preferences between diametrically opposed qualities in equipment and also demonstrate a predilection for only highly specific combinations of gear, where everything else is generally declared shit. Manufacturers love this individual, they will probably buy and re-buy gear multiple times and there is no hope they will ever settle. There is no end game for them, only misery with faint shimmering light sometimes breaking through apocalyptic clouds on an otherwise barren wasteland of discarded audio gear.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    My own understanding of the word 'dry' would be insufficient note sustain (weight) and decay. Focal open backs are what I would describe as very dry and ZMFs are the opposite of that (liquid/organic).

    Measurements wise Focals are the accurate ones but they do not sound natural to me, at least with most SS amplifiers.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  3. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Eh, this is funny and clever but not accurate for me. I don’t cycle gear, I do want to try a lot of stuff though because I was out of game for 8 years or so thus there is a lot of stuff I haven’t heard. Im also not cycling combinations of gear. I bought a few DACs to try and I’m happy with the Gungnir A1 snd Airist R2 and Bifrost2 (for my speakers). I’ve owed the same amp for like 15 years and am still consistently impressed by it. My goal post also does not change it’s been extremely consistent for 17 years since joining Head-fi. If you knew more history of this hobby this would be clear. My first post on Head-Fi was about the RS-1 being bright and not sounding like a “reference”. You can look it up.

    I am very particular about mostly headphones. I think DACs/amps are pretty good in this hobby or at least there are good ones available for good prices, and you don’t see me complaining about them.

    I think headphones are mostly garbage. Even the best aren’t great. I’ve been working very hard to mod some neo orthos to sound good to me and I’ve worked for almost a year on it and I’m still not happy with them. The drivers just aren’t that great. Not what orthos could be.

    companies don’t like people like me I’m their worst nightmare.

    “cheap picky bastard” is a more accurate description.
     
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  4. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    Very well, you've been un-nominated. Since you say you're cheap, you wouldn't have liked the hand engraved solid gold trophy you were going to receive anyway (made it to scale, roughly the size of two actual NFL goal posts). This has been put back into the smelter and will be used for Woo Audio elite editions.
     
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  5. 7seven

    7seven Acquaintance

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    So, I don't think you've mentioned, what are the headphones you deem good? Or is this in comparison to speakers?

    In general, headphones do seem kind of under-engineered, which does not improve nearly as much as should for higher-end models (considering the crazy prices nowadays)

    I dont get the 'dull' and 'lacking clarity' part at all though, I like bright headphones, I like HD800 and even prefer it without SDR, The HD650 while sounding smooth and laidback to me does not lack clarity or sound dull at all, this is what I like about it the most.
    The HD800 is actually the duller sounding HP to me because of the mid suck out
     
  6. Gracchus Janus

    Gracchus Janus New

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    So, I've read through this thread by following another one (660s is not worse somethingsomething) and found it very interesting. So here's a randos take:

    In my journey I already had the HD 600, the HD 58X and the HD 6XX, in that order exactly. I also had a AKG q701, a DT 880 600ohm and still own a Fostex TH-x00. From those I think that the greatness of the 650s are not that they do more rights than wrongs: that to me appeals to a neutral-dull signature that the 6x0 series does not have in the slightest, and I mean it in direct comparison and discredit to my former Q701. That headphone fitted that description perfectly: a entry-mid fi can that were OK all over its FR and technicalities, and sounded completely sterile for anything remotely apart of relaxed listening (and by that I mean a low volume, not paying too much attention to the music, session). The sennheisers are very apart from that: they have a distinct signature which even Marv (hi Marv) has stated everyone in the hobby already knows.

    So its not the balance of its quality against its faults, contextualized by the pricetag, that makes the 650 special, at least for me. It is, rather, their warm, not fatiguing yet involving neutrally centered signature, now contextualized with the pricetag. Granted, some people may call they being acclaimed because they are " great all-rounders", but I dislike that term by the same reason I disagree with the former paragraphs take: all-rounders for me sound like the guy that tries to please everyone and ends up being as bland as a gluten-free, zerocal, zerosugar icecream. The 6x0 series is not like that, and their "all"-pleasing legacy should be, again, granted for their neutral centered, yet seasoned perfomance.

    In that sense, I pair them every week with my "fun"-centered X00 and switch between them not because I got tired of the Fostex "V signature" (FR measurements show that its a slope with elevated highs just in comparison with the mids, so I cant call them V shaped with a straight face), but because I miss the mid-foward, intimate personality of the 6xx itself: some songs can sound lifeless on the X00 because of the recessed vocals in contrast of transients and elevated bass.


    I've been following that tread but been meaning to ask an entry-fier like myself. What I most dislike about the 6xxs are the "veil" I get when switching from other gear. I can get around a bit with a adapted autoeq profile but ultimately it still there. How does the KISS fairs against that using entry level amp/dacs?
     
  7. señorhifi

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    So far I owned myself the K712, HD6XX, T60RP and then HD650 again. Yeah, I repurchased it! I recommend doing the KISS mod to the HD650 though, highly recommend it. Especially for somebody like you, who likes it, yet isn't fully convinced by it. In my case the changes were:

    - Tighter everything. Better definition and detail in the bass, mids and highs. Everything seems to be etched out way better. This is the 1st thing I noticed.

    - Way better separation (but not soundstage). Especially in the treble, which I haven't seen being mentioned too much. When somebody is using a shaker, I can hear out way better the individual grains of rice that are inside (or whatever they use in them, maybe plastic pellets?).

    - The warmpoo midbass bump is gone. It's now a somewhat cold sounding headphone. Still "Sennheiser HD650™" smooth though. The treble is not rough and there's no sibilance at all.

    - Seems like the sound stays fresh for longer, even though the pads go flat. You can use them with old, flat pads and still enjoy the music. Can't say that for a stock 650... You save up pad money xD

    I don't know, I just don't see any disadvantages. Unless you really like the warm and boring (hey, this is good too sometimes!) sound of the HD650, invest in dynamat (I used STP Aero Gold) and go ahead. Just make sure to do it well, or elsewise you're guaranteed to end up with channel imbalance :(
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  8. Ox Cart

    Ox Cart Facebook Friend

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    Aeon RT is $499.
     
  9. Tekker

    Tekker Facebook Friend

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    What does tearing the vent paper on the rear of the driver do to the sound?
     
  10. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    My mods back there were 50% stupid. Do not clone them unless you want to turn your home into a Sennheiser part graveyard like my apartment. I had a phase of destructively tearing down everything to figure out what affected what. Doesn't mean every step was an improvement though, even though I had a lot of fun at the time.

    Tearing open that paper will increase the Fs as well as the efficiency. So you'll get more amplitude in the upper bass, but less relative extension in terms of 20hz level versus say 150hz level. It'll be louder, but you'll get some glare and honk. Probably the opposite of what you want.

    Adding more airflow immediately behind the diaphragm would probably be better balanced by adding more airflow immediately in front of the diaphragm too to preserve a similar tone. Unless you plan to make custom higher-flow earpads (the stock pads already have some of the highest flow of any encased over-ear pads) or replace the baffle mesh with a lighter custom one, probably best not to mess with it. Even with both of those things, you will likely lose extension relative to stock.

    There are no mods that will elevate as well as clean up sub-bass amplitude on these headphones IMHO. Best instead to damp the midbass to be more in line, kind of like what you see on KISS mods. I imagine you could probably get a bit better reach in a different enclosure with an entirely different rear damping scheme, but that's a whole rabbit hole and would probably ruin other attributes that make the Senn 6x0 series attractive to begin with.

    If you want an ear-massage rumbly headphone, start with something else. Best not to fix something that's not broken, or leave it to an expert like JAR. :rolleyes:
     
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  11. Chris Cables

    Chris Cables MOT: Chris Cables

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    Curious thread.
    I think there is a lot of expectations unfairly and abstractly loaded on to the HD650, exacerbated by forum misinformation, which is subsequently amplified and misconstrued by non-owners into something unrealistic and then it becomes something that delivers differently on those expectations, but not necessarily in a good or bad way, just differently.
    As an owner and appreciator of the HD650, HD600 and other 'made in Ireland' HD models I can attest that for at least 15 years this model has been one of my go-to's whenever I have yearned for something deeper and more hard-hitting than the HD600 and yet not necessarily as neutral.

    The HD650 definitely has its' place and shines when listening to certain music genres and certainly equally has its' detractors for various reasons.
    Personally, I enjoy it most when listening to hi-res jazz. Larry Young Live in Paris is one such album where it shines above even my LCD2f's.
    LTJ Bukem's 'Live at Cream '96' is another example of where it hits harder than any other headphone I own....even the veritably bass-enthusiastic Audio Technica ATH-M50.
    It can't however match the LCD2f's ability to convey the deep, thunderous, rolling drums on David Sylvian's 'Before the bullfight'. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING can beat the LCD2f on that particular track for impact, stomach-churning wallop and oomph.

    But the HD650 defintely has a place, with or without mods in any Sennheiser enthusiasts collection for very personal reasons which may or may not resonate with others and their indivdual expectations.
    So let it be. It's a classic. Many love it for its' characteristics and caveats and nothing, no words from anyone can detract from that.
    Own it. Love it for what it is and nothing more.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Biodegraded

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    The Custom Cans mod does this to some degree. Bass is clearer as well as more extended, the amount depending on which foam is used. My (pretty rough) measurements in the thread (posts #1 & #16) suggest 3rd order (probably also higher) order distortion is reduced with the more perforated/permeable foams.

    The video with EARS measurements on the CC site shows the bass extension better than my rig does (but it also shows more treble elevation than I hear).

    But @Tekker has tried this so I guess he wants a bigger effect. Haven't heard JAR myself, so can't comment on that.

    Edited to add links ('cause I'm too old to have figured out how to do that on my phone).
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
  13. HotRatSalad

    HotRatSalad Friend

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    JAR 650 is the way. The OG version really makes the 650 shine. I didn't expect the treble to be so perfect as well on top of the benefit to bass. Imaging and mids are also kicked up a notch but somehow do not sound so close to the ear. The staging is set back a hair. This is the way. I will have a pair ! Very addicting sounding.
     

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