HD600

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by SpaceLaser, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    Upper mids has little sparkle in 600 and can get tiring if paired with wrong amp however 650 doesn’t have this sparkle and can sound relaxing with the same amp. Try out 600 and 650 with Valhalla 2 and you will notice the difference.
     
  2. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    That’s correct observation somehow I feel the sound signature of 650 from used pad is more to my liking.
     
  3. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    EDIT: While I'm here might as well point out that I seem to be leaning towards the Klipsches for Since I've Been Loving You (Led Zep) for no other reason than because the guitar solo is kinda painful on the HD600s, at least per my preferences and with my rig.

    Haha, sounds like a treble allergy if I've ever heard one ;) Definitely see the appeal of HD650 with broken-in pads though, it makes for a very warm and comfy sound! Had no issues listening to music/podcasts etc for basically an entire day with that configuration (modern silver screened HD650).

    The veil could be upstream gear. As for the HD600 v HD650 in bass I don't feel they're that much different, though my perception might be effed in the a cuz of what I'm accustomed to, haha. I do think bass quality is comparable with the HD600 definitely being "cleaner" down low, but I'll be wanting to compare them directly before saying definitively; others' impressions do seem to corroborate that though.

    MiniDSP EARS measurements by @purr1n show a minor 8kHz peak on the HD600 which isn't horrible but could definitely be irritating at higher volumes. My own squiggles don't show one but I'm skeevy of my measurements pending a proper sanity check comparing results across different rigs (there's a fair chance it could just be pad wear or how I position the headphones on the setup, really).

    +1 what @Ksaurav402 said, it's not so much the treble that bugs me as much as it is the upper midrange, and even then only at higher volumes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  4. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Backstory: dented HD600 drivers and then un-dented them, but nervosa had me spend on a replacement pair from another Friend on here. Swapped the capsules out, but because I'm sentimental in a weird way and bored as hell lately I took the Senns apart again then swapped the new diaphragms into the old capsules and vise-versa, currently using the old capsules with the new drivers.

    Sounded different which prompted a closer look, noticed some differences that may be of interest. The HD600s were purchased five years ago by their previous owner, if I remember correctly, while the replacement capsules were purchased a year ago by their previous owner, which more or less coincides with @Hrodulf's investigation into the discrepancies among HD650s concurrent with the move to the Romania factory.

    Things that stand out to me:
    • New HD600 assembly has a less even finish, with splotches of glossy and textured plastic all over; Old HD600 is uniformly matted and nicer to look at. This may have informed my decision to swap things around.
    • The circular flashing marks (I think that's what they are since I can't figure out what purpose they would serve otherwise) are larger in size and look more "finished" on the Old HD600; New one has smaller marks, but they look coarser.
    • Old HD600 silver mesh looks more oxidised. Wonder why (update: rereading this it may not be obvious I was being sarcastic)
    • New and Old HD600 have "Sennheiser" in a thin, sans-serif font stamped around the center dome on both diaphragms. Much fainter on the Old set
    • HD600 L diaphragm has a "9" stamped in the middle, R diaphragm has an "8". Pretty sure it's a "9" because of orientation relative to Sennheiser name, the "8" has heavier weight on bottom to reinforce this
    • New HD600 diaphragms have "MiniSys" stamps whereas Old ones have "minisys"
    • Production (?) stamps on right channel for both New and Old HD600 are upside-down; left diaphragms are both right-side up.
    • Old diaphragms are slightly yellower relative to New ones, magnets also look like they're developing a patina?
    • Easier to snap Old drivers into New capsules than it was to snap New drivers into the Old capsules. Latter took some force.
    • No scale fine enough to weigh them but they feel about the same in-hand.
    • New HD600 caps and diaphragm units have "PA-6 GF" stamped on them, Old HD600 does not. This identifies the material used in the making of these units.
    • The "tails" of both diaphragm units have the number "4" stamped on them, though New HD600 has "04" while Old HD600 has "4"; New HD600 also has "PA-6 GF".
    • Old diaphragm unit tails have red "x" marks, New ones have white dots. Sheaffer influence?
    OLD HD600 DRIVER:
    [​IMG]

    NEW HD600 DRIVER:
    [​IMG]

    OLD HD600 CAPSULE:
    [​IMG]

    NEW HD600 CAPSULE:
    [​IMG]

    SIDE-BY-SIDES (Left = OLD, Right = NEW):
    Capsules
    [​IMG]

    Left diaphragms
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Right diaphragms
    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Just noticed that there're little pillar things on the Old HD600 capsule not present on the New one.
    [​IMG]

    This is a sample size of two pairs purchased years apart so likely useless, just figured it'd be interesting to note. Measurements taken early in the AM when it's as quiet as can be, and because of the silicone pinna minor positional differences may result in variation around the upper-midrange area. Same rear mesh and pads were used for all four measurements, and same EARS channel to cut down on confounding variables. Pads were fluffed up then pressed to get as good a seal as feasible— I tried to keep things as consistent as I could each time so these variations have me scratching my head a bit. Did not match at a specific frequency, just kept the volume pot steady all throughout the process.

    New capsule and drivers are overall less bassy from about 200Hz downwards, but otherwise follow the Old capsule and drivers closely save for a notable mid-treble spike. There are some minor variations around 5-12kHz that seem attributable to the drivers, and while the 3kHz bump seems even between both sets' stock forms switching the drivers and the capsules cause some variation; differences between red and orange traces definitely align with subjectives.

    Old capsule seems consistently bassier, which I don't hate. Listening impressions have new drivers in old capsules with tighter bass impact and better sub-bass rumble, slightly more tizz in the mid-treble (the spike there sounds real to me), and marginally less aggression in the upper mids. Bit more warmpoo, wonder how this would fare against stock HD650? I do get a "veiled" sense now with the current configuration I'm using (red trace). IR shows it's actually looser than stock HD600 with old caps and drivers, which is odd. Maybe I just prefer a dirtier low end, hah. I do prefer this with solid state amplification like the G109A or straight out of the micro iDSD— the Sunrise can get a bit too mushy with a fair few recordings.

    I'm tentatively chalking up the differences in measurements to user error even though noticing subjective differences were the reason I investigated to begin with. MiniDSP EARS are a bit of a pain, haha.

    30dB SCALE, 2dB increments; 10Hz-24kHz, 1/48octave smoothing. NOT level-matched, kept potentiometer steady. Managed to replicate on a separate day, updated measurements below.
    RED: New drivers, old capsules
    GREEN: Old drivers and capsules
    BLUE : New drivers and capsules
    ORANGE: Old drivers, new capsules
    [​IMG]

    Stock new 2019 (Blue) v Stock old 2014 (Green), same pads and grilles.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  5. dgozalie

    dgozalie New

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  6. Baten

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    Your good friend?? Pathetic, spam your reviews elsewhere this is absolutely not the place for it.
     
  7. Nash

    Nash Acquaintance

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    Hi, I’ve been using the 650k for couple of years now. Got a 600 recently from a friend in India, imo the 600 is more lively than the 650k but a bit unrefined I felt. Chain is Modi Multibit>bh crack. Also the 600 is without the rear foam, searched online for it without any luck. Any other diy source for them?
     
  8. sheldaze

    sheldaze Friend

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    Not known if all links are applicable to India:

    https://en-us.sennheiser.com/best-audio-headphones-high-end-stereo-hifi-hd-600

    The link above shows the most recent HD600 and most of the parts. I am assuming you are not talking about the inside earpads and foam disk. The actual driver should have come complete with the rear foam, all included as a single part with the cage and external (rear) foam already inside the cage. I have purchased used HD580 where this was removed and/or the cage was damaged.

    I forget if this was reported to be audible or not. Point is, headphone should have come with the rear foam - not a separate purchase.
     
  9. damaged-goods

    damaged-goods Acquaintance

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    Just for the sake of completeness, the part number of the foam disk that's behind the ear pad is:
    HD600 Foam Disc - 586410

     
  10. Nash

    Nash Acquaintance

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    Actually the friend I got the 600 from removed the foam, he liked it that way. I feel the bass is bit boosted compared to 650K, so just wanted to try to find the foam online. It's not available in the link you provided too, so possibly Senn doesn't sell them separately.

    Hey, thanks! I am actually looking for the small foam inside the spider cage
     
  11. Player

    Player Possible Troll / Argument Shifter

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    I bought the new sennheiser hd 600 a few months back. there was a very sharp fatiguing 5kHz peak that I found to be intolerable. i then bought the dt770 80ohm where the 3.5khz cut was horrendous. Tried the 250ohm version which had over hyped treble and some nasty coloration as well as the 3.5khz. I tried the dt990 250 ohm which at first sounded very strident and harsh in the treble but they smoothed out over a few months. i like them a lot. i know some of yall or should i say a lot of people think the dt990 are terrible. i think they just need a chance:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/gryfjs3i30c7r5h/Beyerdynamic DT990 (new earpads).pdf?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/afcv3lfncnl9mwk/Beyerdynamic DT990 (Old Earpads).pdf?dl=0

    you'll see in those two graphs they smooth out in the highs quite a bit. sounds nice :D
     
  12. Davids

    Davids New

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    Like a few others here, I bought my HD600s in the last millennium, originally paired with a Musical Fidelity X-CANS (about which I remember barely anything. It was tube amp? OK, I guess so...) Back in 1998 headphones were a necessary evil for me, so I could listen without disturbing my young daughter’s sleep. Eventually they started a life of semi-retirement, used to stream late-evening TV without disturbing my wife.

    Twenty years later I started replacing some tired old electronics. Talking about hifi with my (now adult) daughter and she says she’d only ever be interested in a headphone-based system. Hmm. She opened my eyes to the transformation of this little hobby and, curious, I started checking out highly-regarded headphones. I was pleased (and unreasonably flattered) to find that my ancient HD600s are now considered a classic.

    So I spiffed them up a little, replaced the original earpads and cord, and started occasionally using them for music, now through my Rogue RP-1. Welcome back, old friends!

    They remain a satisfyingly transparent transducer. I hear depth and natural detail, excellent dynamics (micro and marco) and smooth, slightly dark tonality. Unlike most of my system, the HD600s aren’t warm. Nor are they bright - they’ve got clarity and resolution.

    I’ve got no desire to experiment with alternatives. That’s something to strive for.
     
  13. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I vaguely remember something round. I think maybe it was not so much a tube amp as an amp in a tube?
     
  14. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    My somewhat modified HD600 has been a pleasure.

    Recently one earpad literally "fell out" and does not want to "pop back" in. I am going to try the Brainwavz adaptor with their velour oval pads.

    If the HD600 has one flaw it is how the earpads are supposed to stay in or on for that matter. I hope I can fix that.
     
  15. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    I happened upon a black screen HD600 a few months ago and I have been enjoying the darker, less grainy and smoother sound compared to the few silver screen pairs I've owned. It probably pairs best with a neutral amp though. Definitely a unicorn headphone at this point.
     
  16. yellow_eggplant

    yellow_eggplant New

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    Hello all, I've had my HD600s for 7 years now and it's more than overdue for a pad replacement. I've read that, when it comes to HD600/HD650 pads, OEM pads are pretty much the way to go as other pads may affect the sound signature too much. I've ordered some OEM pads already but noticed that massdrop is selling pads for the HD5xx/HD6xx. Anybody have experience fitting these pads to an HD600? Is there a noticeable change in sound quality? Thanks
     
  17. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Dekoni Premium Ear Pads for HD 58X & HD 6XX Discussions | Drop

    The only ones I see on there are ones from Dekoni, and yes they are going to change the sound appreciably. They've also apparently sold through and so aren't necessarily an option just now.

    If you want to preserve the sound then the Sennheiser pads are your only option. I didn't hate the Brainwavz Microsuede pads for the HD600 but it's likely too thick-sounding and laid-back for people who generally prefer the HD600 to the HD650 to begin with. The treble unevenness is very audible, but the heavier low-end keeps it from being harsh. Still might not be your cup of tea, esp with the withdrawn upper-mids.

    Measurements below, please note stock pads (RED) are very worn out, probably around as much as yours are if not moreso. I'm still using these pads with cloth I ripped out of Meze 99 pads over the baffle because the foam's long disintegrated, just had Brainwavzs pads on loan. MiniDSP EARS, SBAF comp.

    The Brainwavz adapter ring for the HD6X0/5X0 is a poorly-made 3D-printed mess and doesn't even fit properly. Cracked in transit and owner ended up literally snapping them into place when he fitted them onto his HD650. Hope others don't have as bad luck with them.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Baten

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    OEM pads will have the best timbre and natural sound. Now, if you DO want to try other pads, this coming from someone who tried Dekoni and Sennheiser HE60 earpads and disliked them all.
    https://www.amazon.com/misodiko-Upgraded-Replacement-Headphones-Audio-Technica/dp/B082FP3XTZ
    these are not for HD6-- specifically so you need to recover the plastic ring from an old set of earpads and install them inside to have them fit. They are really quite comfy, similar if not more to OEM pads, and they reduce the left-right intimate sound stage to a more 'all around' stage. The biggest difference is that the spacing further away from the driver will make sound also less intimate and less fatiguing. I'm using these earpads for daily listening and they work really well, if you know what to expect.. did I mention the mesh is really comfy? ;)
    I'm using Sonarworks' default profile with these pads and the calibration still works quite well. Wetness at 70% is my sweet spot.
     
  19. Majestyk

    Majestyk Acquaintance

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    I'm surprised you find them darker. I have a black screen pair with white screen replacement capsules/drivers and they are brighter, more transparent and have a wider soundstage than a refresh (2019) pair of 600's I heard.

    Now you're probably thinking, 'ok, but you have the white screen replacements', but everything I've read about the rare HD580 Jubilee says they are almost identical to the original black screen 600's, And the 580 Jubilee's have been described as having the same sound characteristics as my (sort of) black screen 600's.

    I have also discovered that the black screen (and possibly the early white screen that were sold in the box with the blue Sennheiser name...not the black logo) use different material for the cups. It feels harder than the later Ireland and new Romania pair. I'm not sure if the grills are different or not. (The black screen capsules also have the same harder material)

    Anyway, according to Sennheiser the cloth made no difference in sound. Assuming this is true, it's more than likely the harder material that makes the difference.
     
  20. yellow_eggplant

    yellow_eggplant New

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    Yeah, I've heard mixed reports on the Dekoni pads, but I was actually referring to these pads https://drop.com/buy/drop-earpads-for-hd6xx-and-hd58x/

    I'm pretty sure they're pads approved by Sennheiser but since they're stated to be pads for the HD58x and HD6xx I assume that the sound won't be 100% the same. Was just wondering if the change in sound is big enough to be noticed
     

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