Hifiman HE-6

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Meteora, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    Just to be clear that speakers amps' power is often in reference to 8 ohms. The power supply to the HE6 (35 ohms? Cannot recall the accurate number ATM) would be lower than 10 watts.
    Yes. No point to emphasize power alone. Again, I need to turn volume button higher with my receivers driving HE6 than driving 2 pairs of speakers.
    Ultimately I prefer dedicated headphone amps with HE6 as they are technically and sound better. However, they tend to be expensive.
     
  2. Thujone

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    Well, each amplifier is very different in where their max power "sweet spot" is, so I don't think there can be a calculator, necessarily. For example, Ember II's max power output is when it's feeding into 64 ohms whereas the Valhalla II's is at 300 ohms or so.
     
  3. Thujone

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    Good point. It's still too hard to say what power output will be available at the HE-6's impedance. What headphone amps have you had good luck with? The main thing keeping me from a speaker amp is the desk real estate!
     
  4. TomNC

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    I've heard my HE6 sound great from Taurus MKii. One caveat is that the Taurus was fed by Vega which outputs higher voltage signal than most DACs. Several head fires at those meetings were impressed with the pairing as well.
     
  5. Artasia

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    Amplifier power X power amount into specified impedance / actual impedance of transducer

    20 watts X 8 ohms (speaker impedance my amp uses) / 50 ohms (HE-6 impedance) = 3.2 watts

    Thus, assuming rated at 8 ohms, your 20 watts speaker amp outputs 3.2 watts into the HE-6, as mine does.
     
  6. Thujone

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    I don't think it's that simple. Go to Garage1217.com and look at the power curves for their amps. None of them are linear with respect to impedance and few of them look the same compared to one another.

    I may be missing something but I want to say your calculation only works under a linear power/impedance curve.
     
  7. Prydz

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    I got FirstWatt F6 and Pass Labs INT-150, they sound sublime with HE-6. But I only got Schiit Mjolnir to compare it too.
     
  8. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    How do the two compare against each other? And how do they compare to the Mjolnir?
     
  9. Prydz

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    I havent got to compare INT-150 and F6 too much, cause I blew my HE-6 on the INT-150! But I will get a fixed pair in 2-3 weeks luckly.
    They sound similar. INT-150 I found a little thinner sounding, bass might be little more hard hitting. F6 got more body, it sounds extremly smooth, smoother then INT-150.
    It sounds euphonic you could say, I really love the F6, it seems to have some magic the INT-150 doesnt have. Cant wait to get a better DAC and see what happens then!

    Mjolnir? It sounds shit tbh. It sounds very thin and harsh, bass sounds thin, tho it hits pretty hard aswell.
     
  10. Clemmaster

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    Will get a First Watt M2 on Thursday. Will compare it to the F6... and keep the result for myself! :rolleyes:
     
  11. Prydz

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    I was planning to buy a M2, but then a F6 suddenly appeared in my country for sale, so then I couldent resist...
    You have a F6? Whats ur thoughts on it?
     
  12. Thujone

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    Just ordered the vegans due to peer pressure. Do most folks remove the dust cover from the pad? Seems like it could be a little muffling based on photos.
     
  13. jelt2359

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    With regards to the OP, has anyone tried modding the HE1000 to make it sound more like the HE6?
     
  14. ohhgourami

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    Yes, with hard mods and DSP.
     
  15. jelt2359

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    Hard as in difficult? The Blutack mod on my he6 is the best thing since sliced bread, wondering if there's something similar for the K.
     
  16. ohhgourami

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    Hard as in physical. You can slap a pair of Vegan pads and fill the gaps with Blutack. It will sound pretty similar to my HE-6 but it doesn't have the same engagement and solidity.
     
  17. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Regarding the speaker amps that do 80W @ 8 Ohm...

    80W @ 8 Ohm = sqrt(80 * 8) = approx 25Vrms

    Now, let's take a look at the HE-6. Based on actual measurements done by Tyll here: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE6.pdf

    The HE-6 he measured has an impedance of about 53 Ohm @ 1KHz, and it needs about 1.08Vrms to reach 90dB, which translates to a sensitivity of 76.6dB/mW. That is a VERY POOR number.

    In order for that HE-6 to represent the entirety of the 120dB dynamic range that some DACs boast, you'd need an amp that can deliver... about 34.05Vrms

    So suddenly, not even a 80W @ 8 Ohm speaker amp can "realize the potential" of an HE-6. It can only get the HE-6 to about 118dB.

    Granted, most people would be listening at far lower levels, so it shouldn't matter, but should you need that much dynamic range (maybe... for classical?), or, say... for EQing an HE-6 to deliver moar bass, then obviously an amp that can only do "barely enough" 90dB won't get too far with HE-6. Try a +12dB or +18dB bass boost with HE-6? I don't think you can achieve that without a monstrous speaker amp.

    More headroom is always good. In the case of the HE-6, it just needs a hell of a lot more than most other headphones, and that's why people keep saying... "moar powah!"

    Clarity of power is one factor as well, but seriously, I'd say... the HE-6 being power hungry is a real problem.

    Oh, and also to say, that's for stock HE-6. Most people who say HE-6 needs power tend to have modded it, and IME, modding a headphone can sometimes decrease its sensitivity by a good amount. If you decrease whatever's left of the HE-6, its power requirements will only go a lot higher.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
  18. Prydz

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    Well, you dont really need 100W +. A good quality class A amplifier from FirstWatt or Pass Labs is usually enough.
    There's a guy who went from Pass Labs INT-150 to INT-30 for example, where he say both sound the same pretty much.
     
  19. Thujone

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    Isn't this calculation assuming a linear power output curve with respect to impedance? Is that reasonable to assume?

    Holy cow, yeah, once you start talking about bass boosts (or other EQ) it's not hard at all for an amp to immediately fall behind in the power department. A 10dB boost from normal listening levels requires a massive amount of juice for the HE-6 (gotta love Solderdude's power chart).

    You're also spot on about modding. Even changing the pads can create enough of a sensitivity difference.

    It is silly how hard these headphone are to drive, comparatively. Is it safe to say they're the hardest non-estat headphones to drive? In the world?
     
  20. Prydz

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    Meh... HE-6 only needs like... 2W to reach sufficient dB? Its the voltage swing that matters? Atleast thats what I got from Head-fi, and therefore a few FirstWatt amps do so good.
     

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