Hifiman HE-6

Well @Armaegis and @E_Schaaf , you guys persuaded me to hold off on the blutack mod for now. I'd like to settle in with the current rig for the next 6 months, and I might reach out to @E_Schaaf once I get a better idea on what I'd like to improve, if he's still offering to mod them. I don't trust myself at all with electronics. And I did get a new DAC and added an amp for monoblock a few weeks ago. A lot of changes in a short amount of time, time to sit back and enjoy.

I'm blown away by the HE-6 4-screw and I'm having a hard time imagining what could be improved on. And it's very resolving of different DACs used. With the Convert-2, you do sacrifice the resolution capabilities of the HE-6, but I can't think of a better pairing. The synergy is incredible; the fast transients, macrodynamics, visceral impact, etc. But the bass is the star of the show. Superb grip, tightness, articulation, amazing mid-bass, but it never comes off as bloomy, muddy, flabby. Planar bass+Vidar bass quality+Convert-2 bass = basshead win. And I'm trying to be a recovering basshead.

And that it can handle any genre you throw at it is icing on the cake. It's really tough to go back to my HD650 after this setup.

 

To those that have heard a modded 4-screw and a 6-screw HE-6, can I get your take on just how stark the differences are between both? From reading comparisons here, it reads like they are two completely different headphones.

The 6-screw is more closed in, warmer, lacks in resolution, maybe more compressed? I've never heard them. Trying to understand how someone thinks they are "lo-fi".

What did HiFiMAN do to the drivers or whatever on the 6-screw to cause these differences?

BTW I find the treble on the 4-screw to be much more smoother than when I first had ears on them. There's no more listening fatigue, I can keep these on for hours.

My hearing is gonna be destroyed soon cause the HE-6 sounds massive and impressive at high volumes. I hope these drivers don't short on me, they need to last til I'm dead! These things are so robust, punchy, clear, euphonic, and neutral. I have my HD650 rig on my desktop to compare, and it simply doesn't hold a candle to it. It's like the drivers are wrapped in a thick towel. Now that sounds lo-fi in comparison.

 

4-screw bright, fast, but tizzy.
6-screw a little bit less of the above.
Hence the modding comes in, because you can take away but you can't add. So people clamor for the 4-screw for the supposed speed and crispness, then find ways to tame out the hot spots.

That all said, I think the 4-screw has developed some sort of pseudo mythic reputation, no doubt perpetuated by those of us hosers who like to feel better about having a rarer specimen of an already rare product.

p.s. Stop listening at loud volumes. Give yourself an hour+ of golden silence and let the stapedius muscles relax in your ears. It's roughly the same concept as letting your eyes adjust to the dark. All this chasing of gear and it's amazing how much people neglect the SNR of their own biology.

 

Demystifying the 4-screw so you can diminish my resale value?!

But seriously, I'm glad to hear the differences aren't that distinct. If I wasn't on the hunt for an HD800, I'd pick up another HE-6 from that Adorama sale.

And the loud volume is sort of a joke. Sorry I tend to be hyperbolic but good advice. It still sounds really impressive at high volumes.

As an aside, something I observed before I modded the HE-6 and added some new components, was the disjointed nature of the bass from the rest of frequency range. Basslines were in its own layer completely separated but they also had this uncanny effect where they sounded completely off. I'm no bassist nor a musician, but I've heard slap bass and strings bend live. I can't recall what Fleetwood Mac track had this unsettling bassline, but I did use @Psalmanazar 's "The Trooper" and when the strings are bent around :30 it's just weird. The midrange and that vocal hook didn't pop out like they do on the HD650. So anyway, after doing the mods, swapping pads, adding in another amp and DAC, it's much more in line with how those harmonics are rendered on the HD650 except with additional clarity. Power chords from AC/DC, for example, no longer are obstructed by the softness imparted from the HD650, there is better edge definition and bite. Midrange is more prominent than before but still maintains its coherence with bass and treble. Even all that said I don't use heavy metal or hard rock to judge fidelity.

It's been years since I had the HE-500 but my fuzzy memory tells me I had a similar issue. Must be a planar trait.

And I'm starting to wonder now if a single Vidar is enough to properly drive an HE-6. I'm not necessarily talking about moar power, but the entire range gets a hell of a lot tighter and more precise with a second one. There's this light haze with a single Vidar that makes music sound thin? There doesn't seem to be enough body or heft.

^ don't take any of these observations as scientific or even accurate. Just some stuff I've been thinking about.

As good as the bass is, I'm starting to become convinced that the way drums are rendered thru the HE-6 might eclipse it as maybe the best thing about the headphone. Toms, kick drums, snares are insanely detailed, ballsy, in your face and wickedly tonally accurate. Only quibble is while the cymbals have this beautiful shimmering crispness, they aren't quite to the level on how good the rest of the drumkit sounds. It sort of sounds like the rushing of sands. Again could be limited by my recordings, DAC, etc. I don't listen to classical orchestras, so this is evaluated from rock/pop tracks. But yeah drums are scary good.

Anyway I know this headphone is old news and I should probably stop gushing about it.

 

I've seen the Aegir pop up as a possible amp solution for the HE6 (or the HE6SE, which I recently picked up through the Adorama sale), but I'm not sure I've seen a definitive opinion about the pairing. The Vidar is seen as a good match. Can anyone speak to the Aegir?

How about the Ragnarok (version 1 or 2)? I've seen a couple of mentions of the Rag with the HE6, but those were quite some time ago. The Rag would seem to have more than enough power right from the XLR headphone out. But perhaps its leaner (?) tonality would be a bad match for the sometimes bright (?) HE6/SE?

I'm not inclined, for now, to do any modding to the HE6SE.

Another possibility, I suppose, would be dual Aegir's. Since I already have one Aegir--and like it with my Saga for driving a pair of Klipsch Forte III's--I'd be more inclined to add a second Aegir than to go with a single Vidar or Ragnarok.

Thanks for any thoughts/guidance. I did some extensive searching/reading in the thread, but didn't come across any ready answers, so thanks, all, for your patience from a member who mostly lurks and learns.

 

@treboR There's different protective mesh between the diaphragms and magnetic assemblies on 4-screw vs 6-screw.

The mesh of the 6 screw is more acoustically impeding, hence high-treble energy gets lost and it feels slightly more 'closed'. I've always thought the 6-screw was a bit looser in the bass as well (which is actually kind of satisfying for EDM / hip hop). 4-screw just sounds a bit more 'lit' and contrasty (both dynamically and tonally) for lack of a better description.

That being said, the difference is a lot smaller than most people would have you think - changing upstream gear (or pads for that matter) probably makes as much as a difference as 4 vs 6 screw. And this is coming from someone who was unicorn hunting for a reasonably priced bone-stock 4-screw for 5 years.

I would actually prefer stock 6-screw over stock 4-screw for the same reason @Armaegis said - you can't add something that isn't there with mods, but you can take away something there in excess.

I just picked up @neogeosnk 's 6SE for a modding commission - I'll report back with how that compares to the others in general and also as a modding platform.

@wbass I compared Aegir to F7 using HE6 and my speakers in this review - https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ower-amp-impressions.6953/page-21#post-268791

It's great for the $$$ but a quality First Watt clone might do better IMHO. Or Vidar for a different presentation style. I personally didn't like either Ragnarok for the HE6 - they came off as a bit dry and lean. Maybe with a warmer source it could be alright. At that price though a used Saga + power amp would likely yield better results. Current production Phonitor (E if you don't need the crossfeed) for a more desktop-friendly alternative.

 

@E_Schaaf Cheers! That's very helpful. Thanks very much. Sounds like the Aegir is a great place to start, and I already have a Saga, so perfect.

FWIW, and slightly off-topic, I like the Aegir on the Forte III's. I have a more expensive tube setup that I prefer, but the Aegir has a lot of strengths on the Klipsch.

 

I'd personally hold off on the Aegir, even monoblocks. If you can wait, Jason has hinted about developing a higher powered Aegir (like 200W) with Nexus gain stage. It won't be cheap though. Won't see it soon either. (These are my "endgame" amps for the HE-6)

I've thought about doing Aegir monoblocks and having an active pre, like Freya+, because it has a gain stage that might just be enough for the HE-6. But after hearing Jason's future plans, I've held off and bought a second Vidar (for my speakers, but it can do double duty with the HE-6).

I've had the Saga/Vidar before and it's very good. I'd start there. If you need to save some cash, try to find them used.

Then you can join my insanity and get a second Vidar to drive nearly 64W / 50ohm per channel.

 

Thanks, @treboR Good to have another opinion. To be clear, I already have an Aegir and a Saga (should've mentioned that earlier). I've got a pair of HE6SE incoming and want to get a sense of whether I'll like them. I know they need to be properly driven, so I'm hoping the Aegir/Saga will do the trick for an extended audition. We shall see.

I've also got an AES (Cary) preamp that gives me more gain, so I might throw that into the mix, too. And, for yucks, I'll try my AES 300B power amp, too. That's less powerful than the Aegir, but... toobz. Should be a fun set of demoes.

2 Vidars is pretty intense! Bet they sound good.

 

Ah didn't realize you had them already, please post some impressions! I'd be curious to read what you think about the bass in that setup and how tonally rich it is. Even better having some tube coloration from the Saga.

Thanks, @E_Schaaf for the comparisons. Look forward to reading how the 6SE compares to the OG HE-6. Curious about the resolution and transient response.

EDIT: Nevermind just saw your post in the 6SE thread: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/hifiman-he-6se.6778/page-4#post-262933

 

@treboR Will do! I'm very interested to the hear the HE6SE. You read about something long enough, and curiosity just gets the best of you. But, generally speaking, I'm not in gear churning mode at the moment. So maybe I'll experience them and then move them on. More soon!

 

I know you said you aren't inclined to mod the 6SE, but something to think about is the open grill mod and pad rolling. Removing the grills will open up the sound but it's reversible if you don't like it. Seems the stock pads ain't so good, here's something @cskippy said:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/hifiman-he-6se.6778/page-4#post-262932

Maybe keep it stock for awhile and then experiment with pad changes/mods down the road.

 

Pad swaps would be a good place to start if I do mod! Thanks for the suggestions.

 

The Vidar isn't the most resolving amp in town. You might have better luck with an Aegir.

 

I've heard Rag1 (w/Yggdrasil gen 1) with the HE-6 and it was good but to my ears just not a favourable pairing. Nothing wrong, but at the time I swapped with my Bryston 2B and a Lab Gruppen power amp and I lost some resolution but it just meshed better. To my ears. YMMV, blah blah blah.

 

Think I managed to fix my HE-6, my threaded insert fell out on my left cup. Hifiman wanted me to ship it to China for repair, me to pay $250 for the repair and then $30 shipping back. Thought that was little excessive for the repair. Or to trade in my pair and pay $1000 for a HE6SE which I didn't want to do also.

Bought this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L96KVP3

Used a soldering iron to heat the brass and basically melted it back into the socket. Hopefully it works and stays in now.

 

Had the same happen with my 5LE, I just glued that nut/insert into the cup as it was originally done anyway. It never came off again. That 5LE will get a transplant sooner or later though.

 

He-6 with Audeze yoke/headband is working again.

There is also a guide on how to change it to the Audeze on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...ducing_the_audiman_lcd500_with_special_guest/

Can order the yokes so think next I might grab the magnesium yokes found on the newer Audeze. Hate the SMC connector so might do a permanent cable also.

Haven't done any modding on the sound minus taking out the dampening material behind the driver since it was falling apart anyway and using some different pads, the suede Ether 2 pads atm. Going to do some reading of some mods todo also.

 

I almost forgot the order of turning off components before disconnecting my HE-6 tonight. Turned off the Convert-2 first, then I heard a "pop" from the HE-6. My heart immediately sank and I'm like "oh shiiiiii". Turned the Convert-2 back on, played some music and the headphones still work. Then I did my usual order: turn preamp all the way down, detach HE-6 cable from split XLR end, turn off the Vidars, turn off the Convert-2.

I wonder though if it's even necessary to turn the Goldpoint all the way down since its passive.

Crisis averted though. I realized after this incident just how much joy the HE-6 provides me. I will be super depressed if these headphones stop working some day.

Question for folks here: should I even bother turning off the Convert-2 and Vidars? Besides saving money on my power bill. How long would these components last me?

On initial startup it sounds kinda hazy and a tad bright, but once fully warmed up (seems like 48 hrs is enough) it sounds fantastic.

I'd like to keep them on all the time if possible, unless I'm gonna shorten the lifespan of the Convert-2 to like 2 years. Trying to make these things last forever!

 

Is the wisdom still that an ordinary XLR to speaker connector beats the Hifiman HE adapter?

Is there a particular reason why this should be so? The Hifiman box adds extra/unnecessary resistance?

Anyone have a source for a XLR to speaker connector? I was looking here:

https://lqicables.com/collections/a...-pin-female-to-speaker-taps-banana-plugs-pins

I've been having fun with the HE6SE. They sound pretty good through the Starlett. Even better through an Aegir with an AES (Cary) tube pre. (The Saga into Aegir didn't seem like quite enough gain.) The best result, thus far, is probably my least capable amp: a Peachtree Audio Decco2 into the HE Adapter. The Peachtree is 40wpc, and though it's not the most detailed, it gives the HE6SE the best balance between bass, mids, and treble. In particular, the bass is now impressing.

To the extent that my previous basshead phones--the Fostex TR-X00 (Purpleheart)--are pretty wimpy and muddy in comparison.