Hifiman HE-R10 Closed-back Headphones

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Vtory, Aug 8, 2020.

  1. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Agreed, I can't imagine Fang having a production cost of even $600 on his $6000 Susvara.

    If I had to make my best wild guess I'd say the Susvara costs $75 to $125 to produce no more....
     
  2. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    In Fang's case (especially in Fang's case) the retail price seems to be mostly dick waving or testing the market.

    Look at the 50K Shangri-La. That price is solely to match the HE-1 so that multi millionaires in China can boast about how much they spent to their friends when they show it sitting on the coffee table of their third living room.

    He know's what he is doing in terms of the Chinese high end market.

    He's not trying to build an enduring brand that people in the West love.

    Just my random thoughts.
     
  3. PTS

    PTS Friend

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    The dynamic price isn't horrible if they end up being comfortable and sounding great. We're beyond the best days of HiFiMan though, and dynamic headphones aren't their thing (planars are), so we shouldn't hold our breath. I very much liked the sound of the Sony R10 (bass heavy version), but thought they were aesthetically ugly (bra on the head). They need to outshine wood cup Denon / Fostex headphones if they want this to be a success.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  4. mk801

    mk801 Almost "Made"

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    Even these guys predated Sony:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Ooh... that's a good idea. Let me try that... I've always wanted to see if my printer can print something like the R10 cups.
     
  6. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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    Even the Chinese think this is disgusting... if anything the reaction seems to be quite a bit worse on erji than on head-fi.
     
  7. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    macaron.jpg

    Edit: No PS skillz or schlong browsing required. Just a 90° rotation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  8. InsanityOne

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    Bashing HFM aside, it looks like the dynamic driver version of the HE-R10 is being built quiet similarly to the original Sony MDR-R10. So perhaps it may be able to capture some of that original sound? Other than that, when I look at the internal design of the planar model, I'm just not convinced that it will sound good at all. In addition, the price gap between the two just seems ridiculous. I'm not sure what HFM was thinking here. I would have MUCH rather seen a company like Fostex make a true "revival" of the R10 with their bio-cellulose drivers and beautiful wood treatments in collaboration with Sony.
     
  9. n3rdling

    n3rdling Friend

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    Couple friends linked me to this thread - sorry I've been pretty inactive. Designed these last summer, never got around to fitting a bio cellulose driver in them:

    IMG_20190713_211855.jpg IMG_20190713_203342.jpg IMG_20190713_212546.jpg IMG_20190713_212602.jpg


    I've played around with a few non bio cellulose drivers, and in the process I've just become more convinced that the driver is only a small fraction of the contribution to the overall picture of this headphone design (it's uncommon).

    I used to always laugh at the people who thought having a TH900 meant they basically had an R10, simply because they both had bio cellulose drivers. 5-10 seconds of listening to each is enough to realize that the two sound absolutely nothing alike. In fact, messing around with the original R10 and this DIY version over years has made it so obvious that there are a number of factors that play a big role in the final sound and just how much these factors react to one another.

    If an audiophile wants to experience what synergy is about, there are few clearer examples than taking this design and tweaking one of about 6 design aspects and observing the results. It becomes very apparent that the Sony designers spent many many hours tweaking the physical attributes of the R10 in order to get the sound they wanted. If somebody wants to use this type of design and go down that same road, it'll be borne out of passion for quality over profit.

    Messing around with this stuff and looking at these pics of the HFM tumors, there's none of that. He basically had some slave laborer use calipers on his unopened R10s for 30min, looked on google images, fitted drivers to a baffle that makes zero sense for said drivers, and had a press release.

    It's cool that people are saying this is the final straw, but to be quite frank I've been hearing this for 5+ years now and HFM only continues to grow. As some others have alluded to, Fang does this stuff because he knows the gains from fools continues to easily outweigh the disgust of the informed.

    The posts earlier surmising that Fang was profiting something like 50-60% drew a sad laugh out of me because it's probable evidence that he continues to fool most consumers with this stuff. Even a 10% cost to price ratio is on the very conservative side with lots of this trash.

    As I've been asking people for over a decade: be critical of the stuff on the market, even if it hurts your ego, and we'll all be winners in the end as prices will have to come down and products will need to actually improve. Intentionally leading potential consumers astray - through affiliate sites, shill member posts, hidden forum admin deals, sites seeking establishment, even biting your tongue in threads - gives these guys all the more reason to charge you 4 digits for a garbage driver slathered in a nice veneer or aluminum with a decent carrying case.
     
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  10. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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  11. Ryanr1987

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    I heard an R10 a long long time ago, it imo carries more of a nostalgia factor more than it actually sounding amazing. I did love the design if a little weird and I thought it had a lovely timbre. If Hifiman can improve upon that then cool, in terms of ripping off the design, it's shameless for sure but business can be aggressive, Fang is an aggressive Chinese businessman, he doesn't f**k about. He doesn't give a shit about making a few good headphones, he wants to overload the market with the next best thing he thinks will sale. Hifiman has made the headphone game like the smart phone market, 1 year upgrades, it's fast paced in his mind.

    I don't like this, I like how Sennheiser for example kept the HD650 relevant with some changes here and there. The Edition X wasn't out long before it was gone, HEK was basically a beta test. I hate it because Fang has a good idea of sound, his Ananda, Arya, HE-500, HE-6 are some of the best headphones out there in their classess and even competing well above their weight. The Arya and Ananda will be replaced by the time the year is up, because Fang will be Fang.

    Good, hate, indifferent Fang is a bad motherfucker when it comes to business, in the west respect will be lost but he won't care.
     
  12. InsanityOne

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    HFM aside, this design looks really great. I would love to see it fitted onto a pair of TH900's or Beyerdynamic T5p's; or perhaps just make a complete headphone out of it using an OEM driver / headband assembly? I think the results could be impressive either way. Keep up the great work!
     
  13. Player

    Player Possible Troll / Argument Shifter

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    [​IMG]

    so the he-r10 sound hella lumpy, over boosted above 1kHz. Veiled in treble.

    and the mdr-r10 sound hella lumpy, over boosted above 1kHz. Harsh and veiled in treble. Also, it rolls off everything below 150Hz that's hilariously thin. Thin like a tin can even starts really rolling off at 500Hz. No bass at all or warmth.
     
  14. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Compare those measurements to these:

    "Nerdling's Sony MDR-R10" https://www.changstar.com/www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2251.0.html

    ... and consider that HFM may inexplicably have vested interest in making it seem as if they have a product that's superior to as highly-coveted a headphone as the Sony R10. That's not to mention it may benefit consumers if there were more headphone measurements generated by that rig available for public examination just so people have an idea how to interpret those graphs; Sennheiser measures the HD800 as far more linear than it has any right to claim being.
     
  15. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I've seen pad rolling results on the same headphone with a more dramatic change in FR than the comparative graph of this R10 ripoff vs the OG's.
     
  16. tubefans

    tubefans MOT Drop

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    I have a friend in China and he bought a R10(P) recently. I called him the other day, he told me that R10(P) has both SONY and Hifiman's patent technology inside. The sound quality is comparable to their flagship - Sus.
     
  17. RedFuneral

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    I'm not planning on reviewing these but I've owned a pair of R10D for a couple months now. I was supposed to have a Jade II but after the second defective pair I was told 'No refunds!' by my dealer and that my choices were to either upgrade or keep spinning the roulette wheel. Things get dicey when stepping out of Hifiman's planar comfort zone(I have fond memories if the Sundara & Edition XX.)

    The R10D is a strange headphone uncertain about it's identity. It's advertised as a portable but my phone can't drive it. It comes with a balanced cable but only single sided entry. The build & fit feel loose and the cables microphonic, you wouldn't want to move around much wearing them.

    Soundwise they know exactly what they are, a fun flavorcan. They impart a strong wood timbre on all instruments similar to some box speakers. It adds fullness and some reverb but it's always on. Its heavy-handed but has sparked a curiosity for other woodie headphones. The lows & high-mids are boosted making it an energetic listen with midpaced music. This is tastefully offset by a rolled treble to prevent fatigue, with my Gustard X16 + THX amp it presents a spicy organic tone. Where the problems of these strong colorations come home to roost is in the lack of speed. Fast multi-instrument music blurs badly. It gets away with bluegrass but the R10D can't do metal. Detail & dynamics are leagues behind my Audeze LCD2C Closed.

    In short, they sound neat in the same way it's fun to crank up vintage party speakers sometimes. They're also badly overpriced. I've run them exclusively since they came in due to the sheer lack of fatigue but at $900 that's not enough.


    As a bonus note the Jade 2 is the same tuning(strongly boosted highmid/rolled treble) without any bass. They have price appropriate technicalities but sound weird and not smooth like I expected from estats(I used to own an SR5.) I like light bass and it was too rolled for me ruining anything with any instrumentation down low. They're good for ambient. :p
     
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  18. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I got to try these headphones for a while at a local store and my sentiments mirror these very closely. Pics or it didn't happen.

    DISCLOSURE: I tried them out of an unfamiliar upstream (FIIO M17) but listened extensively to an album I was very familiar with (Guns & Roses's Appetite for Destruction). MQA version so definitely not lossless but more than likely good enough for store demo conditions.

    The build tolerances the headphones appear to be very tight based on a sample size of one-- no wibblement, womblement, or wicked wickety wazoo. That said, they felt concerningly light and insubstantial; despite the cups allegedly being made of real wood I would have readily sworn that they were made of very cleanly cut styrofoam with how insubstantial the whole assembly felt. I had a new production HD600 on hand to compare and just in terms of balancing the R10Ds felt lighter in hand, and not in a good way.

    Comfort was grand-- they just about vanish on my head which oughtn't be a surprise given their light weight and the amount of padding they have. That said I take exception with the pleather they use to cover the headband since I can definitely see that turning into an ugly mess in a few month in the right (or wrong) climate.

    On the whole the sound profile leans lean but somehow thick and plodding. I'm guessing this is to do with the very pronounced reverb that @RedFuneral mentioned, which goes a long way towards making it sound agreeable and forgiving. That said, while cymbal crashes were generally innocuous enough (again: I only really got to listen to a few tracks on Appetite for Destruction in MQA) there were more than a few points where sibilants, specifically very clean "ss" sounds, pierced right through the boxy wooden reverb. Probably a narrow elevation or two in the mid-treble, so that won't bother everyone, much as it can be jarring to others.

    Other than the notable issues with sibilance, vocal presence was pretty well-balanced and had okay but not good sense of nuance to inflection; guitar crunch is acceptable, falling somewhere between the HD650 and the HD600 in terms of presence while maybe having comparable grit. Percussion hits seemed to really aggravate the whole reverb thing as it felt that the headphones were struggling to fully render even macrodetail during the first minute of Mr. Brownstone. The headstage is middling because while it's somewhat out-of-head it's also oddly flat as far as depth contrast goes, but I've got to listen to them with gear that I'm familiar with to really make a judgement call there.

    I refuse to look up MSRP but if these are affordable headphones then sure they can be a justified purchase as a flavour can, though the egregious lack of concern about HiFiMAN shamelessly ripping off the Sony R10 may well give pause for concern.

    In terms of raw performance it's around TH-600/x00 tier with a smaller headstage, significantly more pronounced reverb that reminds me of the TH900, a less immediately offensive but occasionally irritating treble balance, and a bit more restraint in terms of overall dynamic range and textural resolution. I'd honestly much rather have the X00s or even the Meze 99 Classics, but if someone's looking for a distractingly reverby, FaceTune-savvy can that isn't a technical marvel then this could be shortlisted.

    P.S.
    I just looked it up and saw these were USD1200: HELL NO.
     
  19. RedFuneral

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    Yeah, I'll just say I took in an Audio Technica ATH-AWAS and had a few hours with it prior to leaving home for an extended trip. 1st impressions are that it's what the R10D wants to be. Woody not wonky.
     

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