HiFiMan SUSVARA "Review" and Measurements

Naah, not rude. All good. Let me tell you how I see things you wrote about:

1. Speakers vs headphones topic is something we shouldn't compare or pay too much attention to, I think. Simply because these realities are too different. I have a killer nearfield/small room setup at home, which stomps almost everything from the headphone realm to my ears and it doesn't cost fortune. Yet I listen to headphones not only because (as a cable manufacturer) I have to, but it gives me equal joy. Different experience both rigs provide (but of quality) and I appreciate each because of that reason.

2. Now, after some time spent with Susvara I get why these are so expensive. They sound more refined, polished, posh and in general more costly than HEK. To me Susvara is not something equal to HEK or slightly different, but far better and that's why it can't be on the same price level. This is understandable to me, a daily HEK user. From what I read, several journos were like minded in this regard, if it's of any help to anyone here.

The other thing is that $6000 for a pair of headphones is bonkers. These products shouldn't be so expensive, period. $3000 is expensive enough. I enjoy Susvara while it's still with me. When it leaves I'll be very sad but I won't dish out 6K to buy them.

3. I don't even want to guess when and where 009/007 will be better, if at all. I conservatively wouldn't assume anything at all before listening to both products. My gut tells me that the conclusion can be surprising on many levels.

 

I have always thought for accuracy,detail,speed,transparency,treble electrostats are the king.
Since Susvara is an open headphone, it doesn't isolate sound like speakers.I have always thought of headphones as the lower cost alternatives for the people who cannot afford good speakers.Since Susvara is 6k and speakers at 6k will outperform these, i don't see a problem in comparing Susvara and speakers while pointing out its terrible price.
I also heavily preferred the l700s over hek v2 in tonality and overall sound and it's not like the build quality of hek was good either.Judging by other people's impressions, the build quality of susvara isn't that much better than hek. Pretty much every high end headphone sounds good according to someone's personal tastes and susvara is no exception, i know a lot of people who didn't like susvara and preferred something like utopia,lcd 4,007,009 and hell even freakin hd 800.Matter of fact is that none of them cost 6k.
For the record i will recommend the sbaf members to check out the susvara thread of headfi, where people are actually criticising the headphone.
Either way i will never be able to hear these due to their absurd price and my own personal beliefs.There will be a day when high end headphones will start to cost 10k or above and no one would give a single f*** about it.

 

Yes, I've heard and witnessed similar things. If you're estats person then it's understandable that you're after sound features you wrote about. The real question for me is what's the price to pay for these. After many headphones auditioned and owned, now I know that I'm after balance which is safe level of quality in as many aspects as possible and estats don't cut the mustard for me. Usually they sound too ethereal and light. To not look too far back in the past, in Munich this year Abyss cans were shown with Woo Audio WA33 and Lampizator DAC. The sound was wayyy to light for me and that's just one example.

That's not how it works, speakers don't isolate at all. You hear them AND environment; additional background noises, surface reflections, room mods and so on, which can be and oftentimes is painful. Let me stress this again, speakers vs headphones is not really comparable experience.

I can't agree with that. I mean, I get your point of view but this isn't that simple. Some things good headphones will always do better than $$$ speakers in i.e. acoustically bad room, let alone staggering difference in listening experience between these products. I deal with both on daily basis and I can only say that there's no comparison. For 6K you can get a number of differently built speakers (OBs, closed boxes, bass reflex designs and so on) and each does conceptually different things with sound. What I want to say is that there's a very small middle ground for speakers and headphones to meet.

This is fair to quite an extent but my experience tells me that not entirely true. Susvara isn't on i.e. Utopia level, far from it, I agree with this in 100%. Yet it's built much better and is more comfortable than HEK IMO. It looks and feels much less like a DIY product and when both I have on hand, this is very easily seen.

We could easily say that Susvara is also liked by many people, but what you wrote is fair. This product gathers some well deserved bashing here and there which is fine. Our hobby is about variety and I'm far from forcing/convincing anyone to like what I do. I just share my ride with these cans while I still have them.

I totally get your point, it's quite uncomfortable to see $4000 headphones already. As I wrote, I wouldn't spend such money, not to mention 2K more, that's above my personal comfort zone. Still there's a number of people who'll get 10K headphones simply because of their high price tag

I'll say yes to listen to every headphones out there, no matter how expensive they are. Just to ease my own curiosity.

 

IMO you would need a really good system to make any headphone shine,
Same applies to Susvara.
It really didn't shine as it could have,
at last NY meet.

So the price of admittance for the Susvara automatically assumes you have great system already.

Also the high price does leave a bitter taste of resentment,
But I totally blame Focal for this trend of super high prices..

But regardless, the Susvara truley does play at a higher level than a Utopia or HEKV2 or HD800, IMHO.
To me it had greater sense of space and dimensionality, with a most transparent tonality.

It's just really a shame that we don't have more choices at this level, as I see very few choices at the top (at lower price level)..

 

If you are talking to me then i never liked hek v2 or utopia(which i found to be too closed in and bright).Beating those headphones is hardly an accomplishment.Especially at 2x the price.I heavily preferred the electrostats over hek v2/utopia.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with that. Susvara is a quite a transparent beast, it shows the quality of sources used and that alone made huge difference in my case.

I blame Audeze.

 

Any excellent amp for susvara for around 1500-5000$ ,priority- Dynamics,soundstage and resolution?

 

Most of great amps should deliver all things you desire, I think. More important question is about saturation/roundness/density in general, I believe. For me transistors based class A works with Susvara. On the lower side of your budget, iCAN Pro gets the job done for example, switchable circuitry inside of this product impacts Susvara audibly and the amp itself has enough power to handle these cans. iCP is flexible. And I think that Schiit Mjolnir 2 would also work. When I see 5W into 50 ohms load, I think this is enough for Susvara, yet I haven't heard that combo.

 

Looks good too.

 

And some comparison info would help make the review meaningful. How does the Susvara compare to the HEKv2, or LCD-4, or Utopia, or Abyss PHi ... etc? What does it do better and what does it do worse? Without this sort of info the words don't have much meaning for me.

 

Sundara vs Susvara is not a derail imo, if it's priced more reasonably and has the same freq curve that the HE 4 HE 560 and Susvara has It'll be welcome in my book! I've never gotten the HE 560 as my HE 4 still works, and I really don't want to try and find a 4 screw [or 6 screw or what ever screw] HE 6, so seeing as I'm not going to spend even 3,000 on an open back, I to am hoping the Sundara is a nice happy median

 

Subjective things, but here you go:

-tonally balanced, more even than HEK
-very smooth
-not a details freak, but of greater resolving power than HEK
-not bass heavy, but with downstairs reach and substance...
-...and sufficiently substantial in general, neither too thick nor thin
-not sharp, but less cozy than HEK
-impressively spacious
-more agile than HEK
-refined (I dislike the word, but it fits) and much more polished than HEK
-shows what decks in the audio chain are all about with greater ease than HEK
-to my ears a completely differend sound characteristic than HEK, but subjectively much better, not only as tool i.e. in my work but in general
-since Susvara is overall well-balanced IMO, it'll sing with most amps able to handle its heavyweight specs.

Enjoy.

 

Susvara I hereby christen you Goldilocks

 

This makes me suspect that you haven't heard the HE-560. It has a distinctly odd FR.

 

I never said that I had heard it, and to repeat my self I never got the HE 560. I guess I need to specify I never purchased, demo'd or held the HE 560, because the response is similar enough to my HE 4. I would welcome a loaner if one came my way, but I haven't actively looked for one yet.

Moving on @Marvey posted some measurements a while back featuring the HE 4 the HE 560 and the Susvara, all of which had a very similar response curve, take a look

Even reading through the old HE 4 and HE 560 threads, basically the conses was you needed to MOD the HE 560 before it was better than a stock or modded HE 4... I don't have time for mods. And Hifiman's shit build quality on their new line up make me nervous, The HE X V1 I got a hold of an the HE 400i feel likes toys compared to my HE 4, so, coming back full circle. I don't care to own an HE 560, not enough modded pair's go up for sale. I'd rather buy a Modded HD 800 or a 6 Screw HE 6 [if one ever shows up] but again, maybe this new Sundara will be priced nicely atl ike $1400-1500 2nd hand and will out perform a modded HD 800 /HE 560 and maybe compare nicely to a 6 screw Modded HE 6. Here's to hoping

 

"Keep in mind that timbre and distortion characteristics are different for each of these headphones."

Anyway, probably best you hear the things before lumping them together like that.