How do you do critical listening?

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by Pancakes, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    For example when evaluating differences between two components? I've found that unless I'm lying down with my eyes closed, it's very hard for me to hear concrete differences. I hear differences, but not well enough to be able to discern what they are. Lying down though requires that I put all my gear on the bedside table which is problematic. You guys have any tips/tricks?
     
  2. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I sometimes listen to a Playlist for a few days, then play the same songs with the other piece of gear. Long term listening is always the best, but our patience is not. Sometimes I can tell right away, sometimes.

    Either way, it is good to have one good point of reference, otherwise you will drive yourself crazy and second guess yourself too much.

    Make notes, then come back and see if another set of songs does the same as your notes to confirm. Adjust notes if needed. Keep confirming. Then differences get easier.
     
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  3. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    Every time I lay down or even lean back on my chair the soundstage gets skewed AF!, no more depth and vertical axis of the stage gets skewed backwards. I will never critically listen while laying or leaning.
     
  4. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    When I'm being super serious about it: lights off or hands cupped around my eyes (IDK it helps), quiet room ideally, then just sit back and exist for a bit while going over tracks I know well, keeping my mind open to stimuli. Lying down in bed does help, but I don't have many cables that can reach that far LOL. Have to make sure my nose isn't stuffing up half my skull too come to think of it, so I guess evaluating whether I'm even in a position to properly critique anything precedes the above.

    Constantly reaching out and examining minutiae is irritating as hell, and amusingly some bits of detail I only first caught when listening on mediocre wireless IEMs or random headphones while in the passenger's seat with the radio on— something about that arrangement lets things leap out now and again and it's properly jarring.

    That said, when I know something I want to examine specifically is coming up (e.g. "how well does it portray the looser strings in this passage?", "do the hi-hats here sound hashy and ill-defined?" or "does anything get buried when the sub rumble just goes ham?") I block other things out and fixate on specific things. It's a poor thing to do IMO because I tend to miss other, sometimes more obvious, tidbits thanks to the tunnel vision; losing forest for the trees and all that.

    Really though, a lot of my music listening lately is on-and-off background listening while working on miscellaneous crap at my desk. Even casual listening can be useful in evaluating gear, particularly if that's at least somewhat representative of your use case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  5. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    Relax and don't try to focus on specific details. Listen as you would normally to familiar music. You may need to listen to a variety of tracks to get a complete picture.
     
  6. Superexchanger

    Superexchanger Friend

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    I find that there's a kind of uncertainty principle with focused critical listening. If I'm straining to hear details or certain aspects of sound, I can pick out one thing or another, but the broader experience is diminished. It feels artificial. I often know when something works for me by the element of surprise; details and dimensions will often come out of nowhere, sneak up on you. That element - surprise, serendipity, whatever - usually lets me know I'm hearing something in a new and enjoyable way, especially when evaluating a new component with familiar music. From here I go to work sussing out the different aspects that matter to me. If that previously mentioned novelty hangs around after I get a "handle" on the sound, and the profile fits my preferences, I've found a lasting reference. Does it hold your attention when focused, and does it sound good when you're not honed in 100%? I listen in both modes often, and both have to work.

    The comparative work gets easier for me after I get a perspective like this for a given variable change. Sometimes you know quickly if the sound isn't for you, but it's still interesting to tease that out when nothing above applies.

    So, I'd recommend a mix of familar and newer music, over a somewhat longer time, in a relaxed setting. Standard stuff, but you'll have a good chance of finding what matters to you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  7. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    examining the bark on one tree rather than enjoying the woods is artificial, but if you want to know how a symbol decay sounds one one system and how it sounds on another, that is what you have to do. And be critical of yourself, especially at that level of focus. If I had a hot dinner for every detail I thought was in A and then later I found it in B, I'd have a... lot of wasted food :)

    I'll say this because I feel I have to... ideally it should be done blind. Everything but you and the music out of the picture. That is not the ultimate objective, it is the ultimate subjective. I said ideally. Did I ever go to the trouble of setting that up properly? No, frankly, never. But I admire people that do.

    What's the basis for the critical listening in this instance? If you could already tell the difference and/or establish the preference with uncritical listening, then why go further? Perhaps because you are trying to find out why? Or to see if you can find differences that what you consider to be casual listening did not reveal? I'm just wondering what the premise is.
     
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  8. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    The reason I don't recommend hyper-focusing on specific details is because, in my experience, perception is cumulative. If you listen for an extended duration (a few days), your feel for these details will be heightened subconsciously. Then, switching to another piece of gear will create a bigger contrast.

    When you try to isolate a particular detail, perhaps listening to it repeatedly, your brain will fight against you by smoothing over small deltas in presentation. Same goes for fast switching.

    That is my advice for making the process easier. Critical listening has a place, but I don't think it's the path of least resistance to comparing gear.
     
  9. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    I start questioning everything, even my own existence and why I'm able to hear :D

    I like to relax with music. I only do critical listening when something bothers me a lot (a treble peak, bass bloat, etc). The last "critical listening" I did was with the Moondrop Starfields, that's why I returned them. The midbass bloat and upper mids-lower treble roughness stood out for me and I couldn't relax when listening. YMMV
     
  10. robot zombie

    robot zombie Friend

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    For me its about set and setting. Best is towards the end of the day, after a meal and a shower. Cant be too tired. Awake, relaxed, and refreshed is what Im going for. I also like to give my ears a little reset by dialing in on another sense. Often, I'll just sit and read on the back porch, where theres just quiet background sounds.

    When I go back inside, I keep the light dim... Id like to do away with the the monitor, too. Pi2aes, maybe. Sometimes I close my eyes. Sleep mask is better though. I find 15 minutes of holding my eyes closed without sleeping more distracting than its worth... they always want to open.

    Thats the jist though... maximum comfort, minimal bullshit around me or in my head. And then FINALLY I will hear the kick pedal faintly sqeaking and ask myself, "why do I do this?"

    As far as music it'll be a mix of trash, good, old, new, familiar, and unfamiliar. I find that they all tell me things about gear and really just about sound in general. But it really only jumps out at me in a really immediate way when my mind and body are tuned in.

    Oh, and I pretty much never consiously dial in, because it seems to play tricks on me over time. I just sort of let it run and note what I hear. Sometimes Ill go back over things, but ime the things that become most obvious are the things Im not looking for. This means that observations may not translate across whatever Im comparing... as in, I may not be able to ascertain the same attribute in both things back to back. But sometimes thats okay. I find that what counts tends to present itself if I let it.

    Sometimes, I kind of think that if Im straining to identify problems... or even what makes the experience better over something else, maybe Im looking in the wrong place. Put it down, come back another day, its right there. And from then on I tend to retain that for at least a few weeks. Thats why for me its less about noticing what I think I need to listen for, and more about just being poised to notice whats actually there more naturally.

    Something I learned playing around recording and mixing... by eqing a lot, you can get pretty good at conceptualizing what happens across the frequency band. But the more time you spend on it within one session, the further your sense of it drifts. At my peak, you could play something for me fresh and I could ascertain a lot of different things. Now give me two continuous hours tweaking and Ill be sure to ruin it. And I myself wont hear it as it really sounds till the next day.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  11. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    One reason I love the PI2AES is because I can get rid of the computer monitors and focus on the music. Downside is you can do other things on a smartphone. I got around it mostly by using my spare smartphone as a PI2AES controller either on UPnP or Roon.

    Most of the time I do the best critical listening on the weekends when I don't have to go to work, or when I have one too many shots of alcohol.

    Best way to listen is when your mind isn't thinking too much crap in a short period of time.
     
  12. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    You're referring to almost half of Led Zeppelin's recordings, right? Goddamit, John. Fix that pedal FFS!

    In all seriousness, one thing I tend to do is keep a simple reference just to "come back to ground". IOW, I'll get a new piece of gear in one rig, e.g., new iFi ZEN Phono in the speaker rig, listen to a couple cuts on a side, then go back to something I know through and through like iPhone + Andro and, even though I'm not trying to compare them, I'm looking for ways the "new" presentation through the new gear changed (or didn't) change something about how I understand the presentation of something I think I have a clear grasp on. Not sure if that makes sense, but it's kind of like the whole "add X, listen for a while, then remove X and see if you think the sound sucks now."
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  13. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    Hearing differences is about being familiar with what you have. I don't actively try to hear differences per say. My critical listening involves just focusing on the song itself. The differences come to you.

    Takes time and practice.
     
  14. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    If I'm modding I actively try to hear flaws. Which means ADHD smashing hundreds of tracks that are as different as possible (10 or so seconds per track) until I find some that are particularly annoying in one way or another, then I'll think of other tracks that show the same issues, then compare to another headphone to see if that issue is in the headphone or in the track itself.

    I also do the opposite, actively trying to hear strengths. I like a presentation with clear strengths and unclear weaknesses relative to my preference. The more tracks I can scrub through without annoyance, the better. And then finally once I've hit my target, the ADHD tendency goes away and I find myself listening to multiple albums in a row without stopping to think about 'what it sounds like', just enjoying the content. The best sounding systems don't beg me to listen critically. They just get out of the way.
     
  15. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    A lot of interesting responses that I appreciate and need to mull over.


    Mainly because I like to tinker/mod and I want to know exactly what effect a change has (or doesn't). If I change a cap in an amp, what is the result? It's partly "do I like this better" which is not an issue. And partly "why do/don't I like this better"? This second part is what I'm trying to ascertain.
     
  16. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Thanks for that answer. It makes sense. If developing/modding, one is going to want some precision. @E_Schaaf' previous post is very informative on that.
     
  17. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I don’t do critical listening. I’ve got tracks that highlight certain aspects of the sound and I listen to those when modding orthos. I know what the treble is supposed to sound like on X Y Z track, what the bass is supposed to sound like on ZYZ track etc. I just listen. Critical thinking is too brainy and is the least intelligent way to think or feel. Gotta let go and let your whole system work. Just feel it. If it sounds good it is good. And vice versa. That’s about it.
     
  18. dllmsch

    dllmsch Friend

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    When comparing components, relax ,sit back and let music flows through, difference will appear eventually. However I find the best way for me to identify good system, is to just do random stuff while listening. The more I get distracted and sucked in by the music, the better the system.
     
  19. AllanMarcus

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    How to do critical listening:

    1) listen to something you know well.
    2) be critical. The more critical you can be, using the flowery language as possible, the more cred you will earn in the Audiophile community. If you can relate your listening experience to a story of your experience, like the first time you ate ice cream white ice skating in the Alps while wearing the red sweater your wife gave you on your honeymoon. Use terms that are so subjective they cannot be questioned. Also, know your audience. In this site, you have to be positive about certian brands, and disparage other brands. On other sites, they have a different set of brands to like to dislike. If you want to listen critically for a magazine, your flowery language should be proportional to the cost of the item you are listening to, unless there is hype around a item, then you can be positive about lower priced items.

    For critical listening of cables, just always say the new cables are way better than the older cables. That way the companies will continue to send you new cables to test.

    :)
     
  20. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    All so horribly true about so much audiophoolery. Especially the cables. But in this instance, the OP actually has a practical reason for his question
     

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