Is there an HD650 in the speaker world?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by fraggler, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    i know what you're saying and i do agree. i just wonder if he has the option to find places that will allow him home trails. only other option is audition speakers at other locals but, of course not idea since lot people room differ from house to house but, atleast it'll can give a bit better indicator on aspects on how speaker interacts with the room since most show rooms and speaker stores are treated in most cases.
     
  2. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Very interesting points that I suspected I was missing.

    To be honest, this question was personally more academic than anything else, as I am trying to bootstrap a startup and can't see myself spending more than $1000 total for a speaker setup for the next few years. Even if things go well, I doubt I'd ever do more than a couple grand more.

    My RC-10's, though entry level consumer, aren't bad at all to my ears and I think I can get more out of them with proper positioning (currently on my desk in a near-field setup) and better amplification (basically a DIY Fleawatt). My hopes were that there was something maybe in the $500 range that might be a clear upgrade, and not just a flavor change.

    FWIW, when I listen critically, I do maybe 60% classical, 15% classic rock, 15% vocal jazz/cafe, 10% misc electronica. I just started a renovation that will likely take me through the spring at which point I will have a small living room to setup speakers, though shape and windows might make real treatment tough.

    Still interested in both commercial and DIY options around $500 if there are any that are worth it.
     
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  3. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    At least you didn't ask for the HD800 or the Shure SRH1440 of the speaker world.
     
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  4. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    I dont know about DIY, but I'd recommend keeping an eye on the used market for speakers built within the last 12 years or so. In general I'd be cautious going older than that, because most manufacturers used materials that would degrade over time. Luckily within the last decade that has changed. Maybe look for used Wharfedale models (Opus/Pacific Evolution range). Any classic UK manufacturer should do really: Warm, somewhat bassy sound with lots of detail but very little aggressiveness. Harbeth, PMC, Wharfedale, B&W, Acoustic Energy. Just avoid the Monitor Audios :)
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    That's true if only if you take a literal approach to @fraggler's question, which is generally unhelpful to him. I thought @Dino's suggestion of the old school Vandersteen 2Ci was very appropriate. Another old school classic that evokes the feel of the HD650 is the Thiel CS2.2 / 2.x, but it doesn't have that sense of openness of the Vandersteen. It's telling that I think of these speakers (they were classics of that era) because a lot of modern speakers tends to be bright.

    These speakers can be obtained used for less than $1200.

    As far as old speakers, you are fine as long as the surrounds are not foam, and the speakers have not been abused. Rubber and even treated paper surrounds can last a long time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
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  6. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    I have to disagree here to some degree. I dont know the 2.2/2.3 but I do know the 2.4 and 2.7 as I've been selling those for five years. They are nowhere near the tonal balance of an HD650. I think those are fantastic speakers, right up there with the best you can get for the asking price, but they are voiced for extraordinary precision. They're dry sounding, at times a little thin, and can get aggressive in the treble. And the bass while very precise is also not nearly as engaging as the one on an HD650.
    Still, fantastic speakers in terms of resolution/speed/cohesiveness/lack of distortion etc. But imho definitely not in the vein of an HD650. In fact from the descriptions of the HD800(S) I've gathered on this site and others I believe they might more aptly be compared to those.
     
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  7. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    I think the way in which it is helpful is to say that: No, there's no speaker that has had the same kind of universal acclaim the HD-6x0 had for that long, no obvious standout where if you say "I'm getting this speaker" everyone will be like "hey, great choice, excellent speaker, I've got one too." There are plenty of speakers that get a lot of praise, and even some that have gotten a lot of praise over long time periods, but nothing that's the obvious standout choice in the way that the HD-6x0 are.

    Also, I agree with Koloth about the Thiels in particular. I haven't heard them in a long time, but when I was first looking for speakers, after listening exclusively to the HD-580 for years and having it as my indelible mental reference, they were bright and harsh sounding. The closest I found to the HD-580 were Martin-Logans (SL-3, if I remember); but the HD-650 is bassier and less airy-sounding than those.
     
  8. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    That shit wouldn't fly with speakers. I really liked what Troels Gravesen wrote when some folks bashed the AFR graphs of his DIY projects. Basically he quoted Stereophile measurements of some pretty popular models and told if his creations would measure like this, no one would build them at all.

    What I wanted to say is that choosing speakers generally is safer than headphones, because they suck a lot less. All of you guys so far have given pretty nice recommendations. I'm just not sure if towers will work for @fraggler . And I'm a bit reserved to spend more than 2K for speakers when I can build this - https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...o-sb12.3-sb-acoustics-12-dual-midrange-3-way/
     
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  9. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    As for my particular situation, I don't think I could do towers. I'd like to keep it to bookshelf or a bit larger. Something like the Philharmonitor or maybe the BMR would be OK sizes (they are simply too expensive for what I am looking for). I realize I might be chasing a unicorn here, but I very much do appreciate the education.
     
  10. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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  11. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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  12. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I think you are right on the newer 2.4 / 2.7. They made their stuff sound brighter - way brighter. The 2.2 was bassy / darkish. Somewhere along the line, they totally changed the drivers (to the ringy and zippy aluminum shit). I'm still stuck around year 1999 so I forget these things. The new stuff (I heard a Thiel using those aluminum drivers a few years back) should hacked into bits and be thrown into a bonfire.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
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  13. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    That's not an easy build and it doesn't come with cabinets. Cabinets are the hardest part of speaker building. Nowadays, I would rather pay someone to do that for me, and that doesn't come cheap. The cabinet for that speaker would be at least $1500, probably closer to $2000, assuming thick front baffles, internal bracing, and good external finish. Keep in mind that most people don't want to or can't build. Suggestions for DIY are better for the smaller kits that come with pre-built cabinets.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
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  14. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I guess that's one of the rare reasons why it pays to live in a country like mine. Carpentry is pretty cheap and so are materials. I'd have to pay like 300$ tops for that cab. Plus some extra depending on the cosmetics.

    As for pre-built cabs, you still have to glue them which usually requires clamps. Madisound actually has pretty nice bookshelf cabs which can be used together with high quality drivers. I'm sure you could cnc the driver holes for not that large sum of money.
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Pre-built cabinets are ones that are already built. That's why they are called pre-built. In many instances, the driver holes are already cut. Flatpacks are the ones that you need to glue together and require 1000 clamps.

    Hole saws work wonders. They come in many different diameters. Super useful for quick-and-dirty or prototyping.
     
  16. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    I have never heard Sonus Faber speakers.

    All of the reviews that I have read, over the years, lead me to imagine them having a sound signature in the relaxed, refined, a touch of warmth, but still detailed family. You might read up on some older models. If the reviews seem interesting, and you get a chance to hear a (probably used) pair in your price range...
     
  17. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    Honestly, I'd advise against SF. I've been able to audition a few of their speakers over the last ten years. Last year I had the opportunity to audition the Olympica 3 and Venere 3 (iirc). They didn't impress me at all. Their sound was very 'middle of the road' but bettered imho by numerous products at the respective price points. They certainly dont have any extreme flaws; their sound signature is very unobjectionable, but for that kind of money there are better products to be had. You inevitably pay for the brand name, the marketing behind it and the luxus furniture design...
    (Actually very similar to the (so so disappointing) new Thiel TM speakers.)

    Here's a speaker that gives you all the Sonus Faber with far better price-performance-ratio (if you can find them in north america that is): http://operaloudspeakers.com/en/collections/classica-line/prima.html

    ==========

    I just thought of another idea for @fraggler to check out: The Martin Logan Motion bookshelfs. http://www.martinlogan.com/motionSeries/models/bookshelf.php
    I'm guessing in North America you should be able to find the 35XT for about 1000$/pair and the 15 for about 700$ (just guesstimating here). While not very warm sounding (because their mid-bass is more on the precise side, especially the 15's) they're highly musical with a tweeter that brings you all the details in an effortless way without harshness. Voices shine on these monitors.

    And among North American manufacturers the one that pops to mind as worth checking out is Totem: https://totemacoustic.com/en/hi-fi
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
  18. d121b

    d121b Rando

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    Hi!
    I'm quite new to that community, so don't judge me)
    In my opinion the closest one to HD650 (and maybe even slightly better) is Adam A3X , i own them and in my opinion they sound terrific at their price point that i payed for used pair, (which was somewhere at 400$ region).
    If i could download a video here with demo - you can evaluate them)
    Advise me on how to do that)
    Cheers
     
  19. DigitalMaven

    DigitalMaven Rando

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    I second the martin logans xt35...the metal cones are coated so you gt all the rigid benefits without the ringing or breakup. I listened to the full tower using the 6.5s and theyre very good drivers. if you dont want to build speakers this is the way to go. the smaller 5.25s are nothing special. my other suggestion is maybe the seas sr71 kit from madisound for $350. just supply the enclosure and binding posts. add some internal foam and natural wool. if you can get someone to build two small .75 cubic ft enclosures for $300 locally then you have a first rate bookshelf for peanuts. make sure the enclosure is built with at least 1 inch walls for vibration dampening. half inch wont cut it... https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2-way-speaker-kits/zaph|audio-sr71-kit-pair-parts-only/
     
  20. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    ime, there's much bigger variation in speaker quality then headphones.

    to answer OP question, you will have to go out and audition speakers to see what you like and want and need in a speaker.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016

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