Is your system Lossless?

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by Gazny, Mar 8, 2023.

  1. Gazny

    Gazny MOT: ETA Audio

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    A simple online test puts you the listener against compression algorithms and "lossless" music samples
    https://abx.digitalfeed.net/
    you are able to do a real test or a quick test.
    more internet points for a serious one.
    upload_2023-3-8_10-42-57.png

    Here are my results, unfamiliar with these tracks but most of these are quite popular.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    In a can you tell the difference thing, isn't important to specify for what value of lossy?"

    And, I don't know, I'm really out of date on following this stuff, but doesn't it also matter what method of lossy?

    I mean, any fool could almost certainly score a yes using a low-bit-rate, 20-year-old MP3. But how about a high quality OGG? Or whatever is the latest/greatest in the lossy-compression-audio world.

    I just feel it is not black and white. Although some camps, both on the marketing side and on the audiophile side, might like it to be. It is almost certainly not a yes/no to lossy compression, but at what point can one tell the difference.

    On a personal note, I know this: I am always going to buy/keep/archive my music in lossless format, whether I can tell the difference or not. And I am quite happy to listen to a decent OGG (or worse!) off my phone.
     
  3. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I just saw the original thread ...

    Wow, further to my comment on the other thread, being able to reliably hear that a good 320kbps lossy is lossy is indeed pretty epic!
     
  4. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    I cant tell a difference in any of the 5 samples.

    This is why Im mid-fi and find diminishing returns quickly.

    I used HE500 and T20RP. Ill try again later but with HD650. If I dont update then that’s because same results.

    edit: Tried 650 and no difference still.
    Macbook > Eitr > ModiMB(v2) > Jot2 > tin ears
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2023
  5. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Point taken, and, when I looked into this stuff some years back, I was quite pleased enough with 128kbs OGG: as good as made no difference to me. But IIRC, my testing was fairly casual, because it was just for file copies. I put more work into deciding that "Hi-Res" was (at least for me) a waste of space/cash.

    Lossy compression takes genius to design: it is only step one that might say "cut any frequencies we just can't hear anyway." I think this work is as demanding as digital music itself. I take my hat off to the developers --- just as I take my hat off to the ears of people who can hear differences in high-bit-rate lossy.

    On the other hand, not being able to hear what's-missing and other artefacts in lossy stuff does not, alone, restrict us to mid-fi. My tin ears are turning to lead ears all too fast, but I still enjoy real hi fi. Even though, for past four years or so, I stopped considering it worth spending money on.
     
  6. Entropy

    Entropy Facebook Friend

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    Can my system resolve the difference? Probably. Can I? No. I've taken this test multiple times over the past nearly two years, and I've never been able to tell the difference. Given, I've never done ear training or anything of the sort. To the extent of my knowledge and experience talking to engineers and just other enthusiasts that have taken this test, Decently high-quality lossy signals really are quite are difficult to differentiate from lossless signals. I don't think I have any buddies that have passed the test, even after years of listening or mastering, and with some pretty nice gear.

    At least for now, though, I don't think I really want to hear the difference or learn how to differentiate between lossy and lossless. Right now I really enjoy music with where I am personally and where my system is, and I'd hate to ruin some of the music I listen to or my gear by actively searching for flaws.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2023
  7. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Can any system "resolve" (I wouldn't use that word) the difference? Almost certainly. It includes all the frequencies you may not be able to hear, and which are very likely to have removed from lossy music.

    This is not an is my system worth it question. Systems play what is fed into them. If you can hear the problem, you'll probably hear it on anything half-decent. Maybe not a boom-box or my cheapo phone/amp/earphones setup.

    The designers of lossy algorithms have intended that they should only remove what what we can't hear anyway. They are pretty good at that, although they are not going to win every time or every ear.

    And they may also not always win at zero unwanted artefacts.

    I was a great fan of minidisc. Utterly delighted to leave the age of cassettes behind, and very pleased with the audio quality of this format. I was also delighted to be able to make recordings that were about the sound and not the hiss.

    Indian musicians play to the accompaniment of a drone. It is a string instrument with four or six strings, which are plucked, one by one, combining into a pleasant sound. Instead of the instrument they often use an electronic box (or a phone app these days) which emulates it into a speaker. The lossy compression of minidisc would sometimes make a real mess of that sound. Golden ears needed to hear that? No. Did it still sound awful on cheap headphones? yes.
     

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