List of universal fit in-ear monitors >200$

Discussion in 'IEMs and Portable Gear' started by Koloth, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    Ortofon e-q8 for $350 I believe. Japan- 1 MA.

    There are the new Flare Audio R2A and R2Pro micro dynamic drivers. Not sure on the price as they just got out of Kickstarter. Kind of expensive if I remember correctly. Made somewhere in Europe.

    Regarding iem measurement systems- I wish there was something affordable and IEC accurate. I tried the Veritas without much success, so a friend is calibrating it for me.
     
  2. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    @Griffon If we're serious about this, I believe we should start slowly and work our way up. Let's say we start with the price segment 200-250$. The quest: 'What are the two best UIEM's 200 or 250$ can buy? A non-bullshit SBAF recommendation'.

    If we wanted to do it I could put up a poll with all the products listed so far in the 200-250$ price segment. I would link to the manufacturer pages for each product, and then members could start voting. Say everyone gets three votes. After 2-3 weeks the top 8 products advance to the review stage. We contact manufacturers for loaner units (unless that is forbidden practice at SBAF?). If we cant get a certain unit in as a loaner or for a good price the next-most-voted-for product gets a shot.

    What we would need then are some trustworthy members that a) live within the same country to avoid custom charges per transfer (probably the US given the majority of users of this site), b) are interested in UIEMs, c.) at least some of which own measurement equipment to provide objective data and d.) are reliable to actually compare the products and send them on to the next person on the list in time. Of course this requires effort, time and money. I believe the SBAF top dogs are busy with full-size reviews atm, so this might be a good idea for someone else to step up.

    What are your thoughts on all of this @purrin , @The Alchemist , @CEE TEE , @Hands , @OJneg , @supermarv , @ultrabike and @zerodeefex ? The SBAF leaderboard for in-ears does seem terribly short and outdated.


    I have looked at that system. Why didnt it work out for you? And what do you mean by 'calibrating'? Is he developing a compensation curve?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
  3. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    Yes he's building several compensation files. The acoustic impedance is different in the Veritas, so I'll have compensation for armatures and dynamics separately.
    2 raw iec compensation files
    2 diffuse field compensation files
    2 olive/welti target compensation files

    Each Veritas is different, so using another's compensation files doesn't work properly either.
     
  4. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    I have updated the list with a few more exotic models: ACS, Cypher Labs, Kumitate Labs, Oriolus and a newly announced Sony. (Prices on some of these are provisional and may change a little in the next months.)

    Also I have no idea how to classify this transducer technology: http://acscustom.com/uk/product/acs-evoke-studio-universal/
    So is it a BA or a DD or something genuinely new?
     
  5. Griffon

    Griffon 2nd biggest asshole on SBAF

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    What I understand is BA+DD hybrid, though the exact numbers remaining unclear.

    Personally had some negative experience with Kumitate Labs.
     
  6. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    The problem is that they specify very clearly that it's a "single driver IEM". And in the spec sheet you find this marketing language: "ACS has worked alongside Knowles Electronics to introduce their new Hybrid transducer technology to our ACS Evoke product. Knowles Electronics have combined elements of their existing balanced armature transducers with those of a more traditional dynamic loudspeaker, giving you a dynamic high quality In-Ear Monitor." So really, I'm no smarter than I was before... BA, DD or really something new?


    Interesting. Care to share?


    Also: I updated the list with the newly announced Onkyo-Philips collaboration E900M, thats supposed to go on sale within the next months. As always, prices are provisional (lifted from some japanese website).
     
  7. Griffon

    Griffon 2nd biggest asshole on SBAF

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    In regard of the ACS, to me it's quite some voodoo marketing BS to mention both Knowles and DD, then claim it's a single driver. Confusion ain't good. I'm taking it as a combined block of DD+BA hybird as a "single" driver - but I can see this idea being very, very wrong. I want to put the ACS aside.

    On Kumitate Labs, when I was considering my second pair of customs I contacted them...then was totally ignored. Maybe it's just me, but still I was upset. Haven't heard other people's experience, so l want to avoid a definitive claim over them (not like JH).

    Anyways, the IEM land of SBAF is really sparsely populated...
     
  8. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    Perhaps I'll send ACS an e-mail inquiring about that clarification of the technology used. If its not just some marketing bullshit but actually something new that would be interesting for the whole market.

    Yes it seems that there is very little interest in IEMs around here :) 0 measurements, so far no interest in getting a testing procedure set up. For my part I'm very interested to hear about @shotgunshane 's experiences with the 'corrected' Veritas measurement system.

    In terms of IEMs im currently still using my beloved IE8's and I think I'll hold off with upgrades until Trinity Audio launch their Phantom kickstarter campaign. (See here in case you dont know what I'm talking about: http://www.head-fi.org/t/784194/trinity-phantom-pro-universal-iems-completely-wireless-arriving-2016

    So far Trinity has been really good with the kickstarter campaigns and 380 for a six BA driver UIEM with the build quality Trinity is known for - thats a very tempting proposition. Also, the myriad of US products just arent that attractive for a european like me. Shipping and taxes will really screw with the value proposition. Something European (Trinity from GB; Earsonics from France; Sennheiser from Germany; Stagediver from Germany etc.) seems to be better value as a rule of thumb.
     
  9. briskly

    briskly Friend

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    Wait, they aren't matched? Oh my. Maybe it would be better if we just used some 2cc's and RECD correction as appropriate. Things with a horn design (F111, IM02) might complicate matters a bit.
     
  10. kapanak

    kapanak Canucklehead - Friend

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    Koloth, amazing list, and definitely something that was lacking here and back in Changstar. Thank you!

    One request: Could you choose a brighter shade of green or another colour that stands out as much as the yellow, orange and cyan? On the dark theme, the green is almost unreadable without me selecting it. Thank you :)
     
  11. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    @kapanak Your wish is my command. Good suggestion :) - it does look a lot better.
     
  12. Kunlun

    Kunlun cat-alyzes cat-aclysmic cat-erwauling - Friend

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    Well, I'm definitely interested in iems and ciems.

    I've fallen a little out of love with most multi-BA designs, although a few are quite well-done. It often seems like plugging in the same ol' Knowles and Sonion designs without putting in the proper ear time to really make things work together. There are issues with real bass feel in a closed-shell design and BAs often have issues with treble spikes and unnatural timbre. I'm happy to be surprised by something great, though.

    There actually seems to be more innovation with non-BA driver types. I was interested in what Sennheiser did with the ie800, although not for everyone, the idea of using helmholtz resonators in an iem is pretty neat. I hope someone has spoken to Axel about the cables, though! The KSE1500 seems like it will be, based on the few reports out, maybe an earphone that finally does for me what STAX do: Not much, but they do it really well.

    I'm enjoying the in-ear-central triple dynamics at the moment, it's a simple design, but it sounds natural without treble peaks and excellent extension above and below, which really fits what I am looking for. If it had superior clarity, then I wouldn't need to look further.

    Hybrids take a lot of work to sound right. I mean, a ton of work. I haven't really heard one that fully gets it right for me.
     
  13. Kunlun

    Kunlun cat-alyzes cat-aclysmic cat-erwauling - Friend

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    Aw crap, just got this pm

    Hi Kunlun,



    My usual ciems are Noble K10 and home speakers Meridian 8000SE's and I didn't find that Shure's suffered by comparison in terms of sub-bass, either in amount or extension. While I'm not a bass nut I do believe that the effective and believable reproduction of bass and sub bass adds immensely to the sense of realism and enjoyment of recorded music and didnt find the Shures wanting in that

    It was a feature which I was particularly interested in checking out because of the reported inability of many electrostatics to render sub bass effectively. (and was the reason I sold the first pair of Stax electrostatics I owned about forty years ago).

    I will certainly buy some as soon as they are available in the UK.
     
  14. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    I have been wondering about designs with more than one dynamic driver. Theoretically you dont seem to gain much: Dynamics dont have frequency bandwidth issues (as BA's) that force the use of multiple drivers, so you introduce all kinds of crossover issues without real need. Then again, the promise of deep powerful dynamic bass and non-aggressive yet detailed mids/highs is very interesting :) In a way this would be a great SBAF project:

    'Multi-dynamic-driver UIEMS: Are they any good?'

    Based on the current list, these would be the contestants:

    Audio Technica ATH-CKR9 | JPN | 2xDD | USD 250
    Audio Technica ATH-CKR10 | JPN | 2xDD | USD 350
    JVC HA-FXT208SE | JPN | 2xDD | USD 200
    JVC HA-FXZ100 | JPN | 3xDD | USD 200
    JVC HA-FXZ200 | JPN | 3xDD | USD 300
    KEF M200 | GB | 2xDD | USD 200
    Kennerton Audio Ikiz | RUS | 2xDD | USD 250
    Kennerton Audio Jimo | RUS | 2xDD | USD 350
    Olasonic Flat-4 Nami TH-F4N | JPN | 2xDD | USD 500

    Thats a total of 9 models. A manageable number. If there was enough interest I'm sure we could get a loaner/review tour organized for these products. Say if we got about four people, some of them with measurement equipment? Perhaps @shotgunshane will have his veritas setup ready for primetime ;)
     
  15. Kunlun

    Kunlun cat-alyzes cat-aclysmic cat-erwauling - Friend

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    Just to be clear, there are no crossovers in the ciem I mentioned.

    What you gain is some headroom, in that case.

    The dual dynamic plus BA tralucent ref1 was terrible for the price. I was loaned another high end dual dynamic prototype that was flawed enough that I talked the maker out of selling it.

    Hopefully the hifiman re1000 (another dual dynamic) will be much better. We'll see.


    When it comes to measurements, it has to be both accurate and replicable by others. Hopefully, the softwear might do that, but does SGS have a model head/ear as well? Resonances in the ear canal are critical to understanding iems. Sound perception is different if you block the ear canal like you do with iems versus a headphone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  16. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    If I understand correctly, what @shotgunshane is using is this: http://vibrolabs.com/products/veritas
    He is apparently in the process of developing several compensation curves (see above on this page of the thread).

    You seem to have a lot of experience with multiple dynamic driver in-ears @Kunlun , so your perspective is especially informative. While some of the models on the list I posted above seem to be aimed at bassheads and dont look very promising in terms of general sound fidelity, I think that at least the Audio Technica ATH-CKR10, the KEF M200 and the Olasonic look interesting for non-bassheads as well. They're not retardedly expensive either.

    I see that you're located in the US. Would you be interested in being part of a review tour if we could get some of these manufacturers to send out loaners? Of course that would require some time and some money (for shipping cost to the next person of the review tour, so nothing too expensive).

    In my ideal world, if we got 3 or 4 SBAF's to step up and show interest in this tour, we could start getting in contact with manufacturers/distributors/dealers for review loaners. Perhaps then we could even include @Tyll Hertsens from IF as the last stop of the review tour, if he'd be willing and interested to measure the models.
     
  17. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    The few dual dynamics I've heard haven't sold me on any SQ benefits. So far the best dynamics to me have been singles like the Sony MDR EX1000 and EX7550 but they are a bit peaky in treble (particularly the EX1000) but spectacular in bass. Other dynamics like the Tenore, Sony MH1 and LG Quadbeats 3 are quite good in midrange and treble (very linear, extended and smooth to my ears) but they lack something in bass. All 3 are boosted to varying degrees and bass quality ranges from just OK to quite boomy.

    The soon to be released Mee Audio Pinnacle P1 is the top dynamic on my list to try. I believe it's MSRP will be around $200 and offer a supposedly slightly warm take on a reference signature. It was supposed to be released at the beginning of summer but has been postponed. Not sure on actual release date now.

    Regarding measurements: You don't need dummy heads for iem if using a coupler. The iem will seal completely in the coupler, so there's no benefit to dummy head/ear in this particular case. A non-IEC coupler like the Veritas will have it's own resonance points and acoustic impedance that need to compensated for and that's part of the compensation curves that were created for me. Rin and Speakerphone but use an IEC 60318-4 occluded ear simulator coupler for measuring iems. Simulators like those are created to have an acoustic impedance that matches the human ear canal and one of these was used to help create my compensation curves. The veritas is on it's way back to me. Next I'll have to figure out how to measure insertion depth, so I can measure at the reference plane, 3mm away, 6mm away, etc. I'll be able to compare my results on an ER-4S to Rin and Speakerphone's published works on that iem. Hopefully I can get something useful from it.
     
  18. Kunlun

    Kunlun cat-alyzes cat-aclysmic cat-erwauling - Friend

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    I'd like to be part of a review tour, depending on the iem in question, of course. Mid-fi or above for me. I'd like to try to get loaners for higher end iems as well, can't hurt to ask.

    I'd like to see people doing measurements on iems talk to and match up with purrin, ultrabike and other SBAF folks. That would be really worthwhile.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  19. Koloth

    Koloth Klingon SBAF Ambassador - Friend

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    @shotgunshane I am truly interested in your progress and findings. Can I assume you live in the US as well? If so, would you be interested in being part of a review/loaner tour? Just in general.

    @Kunlun Great to hear! What price-range would be of the greatest interest to you? I think in a way a kind of 'trial run' with less expensive models might be smart - and certainly helpful for a great many people lost in the sea of IEM's out there. But one could certainly go for the big boys right away. If enough people show interest I believe a poll would be in order to determine the contestants of a review/loaner tour. In the end, whatever populates a SBAF recommendations leaderboard makes sense :)
     
  20. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    Sure, I'd be happy to be a part of a tour.

    I wouldn't post any measurements though, without first being confident that they are reliably reproducible and fairly accurate to some known published measurements from Rin and Speakerphone and then of course approved by Purrin to post them.

    Edit: forgot to say I'm in the ATL, home of the dirty birds.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

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