Low Capacitance Interconnect Cables

A lot of us use Cinemag transformers to convert a balanced signal from a DAC to an SE signal to run to our amps because the balanced signal from our DAC is better than the SE signal, even run through a transformer.

From Dave at Cinemag:

RCA cable length after (2) CMLI-600/600C VS (2) CMLI-15/15B

Q:
Can you tell me the max RCA cable length after the CMLI-600/600C before I start loosing sound quality in this chain?

Yggdrasil DAC -> 2 CMLI-600/600C -> 1 amplifier

A:
The acceptable length depends upon the total capacitance of the cable. For this application, I would keep it to less than 1000pF. Cables are rated at capacitance per foot.

Q:
What about the CMLI-15/15B?

A:
I would keep cable length to under 1 meter. Even shorter is better. This is to keep the total capacitance at a minimum. Low capacitance cable is good to have. Place the transformer at the input of the device that is being driven. This is because of the high impedance.

​

I use 2 Cinemag CMLI-600/600C to convert the balanced signal from my Yggdrasil A2 to an SE signal for my SE amps. Some DAC's don't work with the CMLI-600/600C though and many of you use the CMLI-15/15B. I haven't asked Cinemag about the CMLI-15/15B but I will and report back.

I'm moving the preamp for my First Watt F4 that I use to drive my modded Audeze LCD-4 further away from my transformer to accommodate more amp whoring and make another space. So I asked Cinemag about cable distance from the CMLI-600/600C.

Dave from Cinemag is really kind, and wrote back that it's not about distance, but total cable capacitance after the transformer, and with the CMLI-600/600C, 1000pF was the max before you run into audible problems.

Most cable companies dun't publish the capacitance of their cables. Most of my IC's are JPS Labs Ultracunductor 2 cables I was lucky enough to inherit from a friend. They sound great, but I could never afford to buy them especially at 2m lengths. And they don't publish the capacitance of course.

My alternative is Pangea, but they don't publish the capacitance either, and when I asked they said:

"We don't publish the cable's capacitance; we don't find it to be a relevant specification in deciding which cable (or what length) to use"

Well, it matters if you're using a transformer to convert a balanced to SE signal. it's not likely that Pangea's cables are over 1000pF for a 2m cable, but who knows, I've read that more shielding creates higher capacitance and their cables are triple shielded, and why else would they refuse to disclose the capacitance unless it was very high.

I also read that a stock HD600 cable has a capacitance of 600pF, which is too close for my comfort. So it is a legitimate worry with these audiophile voodoo cables where people are doing all kinds of screwy things just to be different. I certainly don't want to just trust this guy even though he's a "cable legend"



So I was wondering if you all have any recommendations for low capacitance interconnects that sound good. I'm going to buy 1m pairs of some different kinds to compare to my JPS labs cable, which is my reference.

Low Capacitance Cables I have found:

Audio Envy

Publishes the capacitance of their cables along with real information and so far of the cables I've found, theirs are the lowest capacitance on the market and they use OCC copper which I love.

their RCA cable, the Studio Prestige measurements:

Measuring a leads capacitance of 4.2pF per foot.
A dielectric constant at 1.3.

Blue Jeans LC-1 Low Capacitance Interconnects
This appears to be a new cable from Blue Jeans and it's a bit more expensive, but I'm intrigued and got a 1m pair to listen to. We all like their no nonsense approach.

Grover Hoffman Cables
I read on a forum that these were very low capacitance and sound great. The capacitance isn't published though so I reached out to the builder and he told me:

Empress cable is 35-40 pf/ft


Custom Cans Ultra Low Capacitance Interconnects
I like these cables because they are designed with science and ideas and no voodoo. They're even more fact based than Blue Jeans.

By the way, check out this video on their upcoming "even lower" capacitance headphone cable. Looks interesting at least, but it will be a long time likely before they make an IC that way if they even do.

Shunyata Interconnects
(link is to their Venom cable as the rest get very expensive) but the design looks very cool which we all know translates to better sound

Capacitance of the Venom cable is 20 pf / ft

Iconoclast Cables
they have 2 different weaves 1x1 and 4x4

• 1x1, 12.5 pF/ft
• 1x4, 17.5 pF/ft

Iconoclast BAV cables
(Cheaper, more flexible version. I don’t know how they compare sonically and I’ve asked about their capacitance but it is surely very very low)


Any other cables I should check out? I thought it would be useful to have a thread on low capacitance interconnects. I'll also ask Cinemag about the total cable capacitance that is ok after the CMLI-15/15B

 

I was going to suggest the Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 too. It’s actually not new; it’s been around for over a decade. I’ve purchased more pairs than I can count. Well-built, no-nonsense, and cut to your specifications, and you don’t have to spend silly money. I’ve been satisfied for over a decade.

 

Maybe the Uber expensive Beldons
I think they are called Iconoclast.
I wont sell you on them but they have some stuff written up on them.
Might offer more questions than answers, but they got measurements.
https://www.iconoclastcable.com/blog/?cat=10.

Spoiler: nervosa mode

Bit of nervosa, do you think maybe the XLR cables should require less capacitance as they have more conductors
Don't forget to lift the cables too, if they get too close they might increase capacitance.

Friend of mine hates the Famous Bledon 9497 because of the twisted nature of them, measured them a few mhz out to see what they are really like, I don't doubt his findings. Im sure litz and other braided cables do this more so, they do change the treble signature that we often find as more neutral than dark or boosted. I suspect the capacitance is part cable gangue, part conductor count, part twist.
Not sure what would be perferable really, sometimes the output of our device might be at play, not only impedance but capacitance.
Switching boxes often give me noise, especially in my tvc as it acts as a freaking antenna and the cross talk is through the roof.
Your results may vary.

 

Here are a few user measurements of cheap/generic cables:

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/measuring-the-capacitance-of-some-rca-cables.285128/

Figures for half-a-dozen Mogami submini coaxials are mfr-specified between 58 & 110 pF/m:

https://mogamicable.com/category/bulk/video/subminiature_miniature/

And various Gothams are specified between 57 & 146:

https://gothamcable.com/en/gothamcables/unbalancedcable

Although, here's a source claiming a 'typical' figure is 120-300 pF/m:

http://www.tonestack.net/articles/speaker-building/audio-interconnect-cables.html

Blue Jeans LC-1 spec is very low at 40 pF/m.

You haven't said exactly how long you want the runs. If you're going to exceed 3m/10' using cheap wire you might worry about capacitance, but any competently designed & constructed audio interconnect should be fine at those lengths for your application.

 

Audio Tuning Pithan's is 28,5pF.
PSK2-L100

http://www.audio-tuning-pithan.de/produkte.htm#A7

@10khz and 100m length the damp. value is 3db

 

Not that long, I'm probably falling into a rabbit hole of capacitance nervosa but I wanted to look into it regardless.

2m from the transformers to my preamp and 1.5m from the preamp to the speakers amp (where capacitance doesn't matter)

 

Just to have more choice Sommer cable:

https://shop.sommercable.com/en/Cable/Bulk-Cable-Audio/

They list capacitance wire to wire and capacitance wire to shield.

carbokab 225
Albedo mkII
Stratos
Galileo 238

should all be suitable for a 2 m run.

If you like to buy local, Sommer might not be first choice you.

 

Interesting you found Audio Envy cables to be muddy and bassy. Must be system dependent.

I've found them to really extend the high frequency information and detail retrieval when directly compared to Blue Jeans for a few months. Some could find this bright I would think but the opposite of muddy.

Not knocking your totally valid experience, but wanted to share mine too.

 

You may find this post useful:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ison-technical-measurements.7324/#post-240771

 

Kimber lists electrical specifications of all their cables on the site.

 

I just did a pair of phono interconnects with Mogami W2549 and Neutrik ProFi RCA connectors. The Mogami is 22awg OFC and the conductors are 11pF/m, the Neutrik connectors are low resistance and capacitance, and I think they look cool. It was a cheap project and I'm pleased with the sound. Here is the Mogami spec sheet:

 

Any more ideas for low capacitance cables?

I have bought the following to try:

• Blue Jeans LC-1 (II had some Belden branded cable before that was like $30 so this is new to me)
• Iconoclast BAV (a much cheaper version of this cable. I wish I could afford the OCC copper real Iconoclast, but it's close to 2 grand for 5 feet. Too much.
• Custom Cans unshielded ultra low capacitance RCA (we'll see if it picks up noise)
• Grover Hoffman Empress (interesting cable, he uses 3 flat conductors, and a combination of copper, silver and tin- 3 flat conductors- I'd think it would sound like shit except JPS labs uses multiple metals in their cables and they sound great)
• Audio Tuning Pithan (recommended by @Huhnkopf )

 

I don't know about all of their cables, but Shunyata Research's Venom X cables (their cheapest cables) are 20 pF/ft which is very low though not the lowest of all the cables mentioned here. They also look very well designed, but I haven't heard them yet.

 

Maybe @Puma Cat has a pair that the San Francisco audiophile society loans?

 

Have you considered making tape cables?
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...e-rolling-adventures.2034/page-14#post-169395

It basically meets the criteria for low capacitance as explained here:
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-13/factors-affecting-capacitance/

 

World’s Best Cables on Amazon also sell ultra low capacitance cables. https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/61A6B730-6638-4BD3-B051-0DFC5585608B?ingress=2&visitId=6fef1da5-91e8-43ed-b1fa-905a5663a09a&ref_=ast_bln

I was considering some for my phono connections.

 

Please report back about the Iconoclast BAV, especially compared to Blue Jeans Cable LC-1. I’m very curious about it, even if it’s not the more expensive model.

 

Pro Audio LA has a lot of options, but they don’t list capacitance, so you’d have to look it up.

They have great workmanship but are slower than Blue-jeans cables.

 

The issue with these cables is that they go 100% against all best wiring practices due to large loop area. There's a reason why signal wires are twisted and it has nothing to do with audiophile beliefs.

 

I'm using a 3' pair of Grimm TPR cables made by Pro Audio LA after my Cinemag 15/15b. They sound very good and are well made. Grimm TPR specs here: