Magnepan

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by mtoc, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. mtoc

    mtoc SBAF's Resident Shit-Stirrer

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    Hi all, what's the good and bad of the Maggies? I've read many reviews, almost everybody says they're almost unbeatable at their price ranges (with proper amps).
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  2. Dash

    Dash Friend

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    I have the MMGs driven by an Acurus amp and Acurus preamp. I have always thought they were special and crushed the bookshelf speakers in the same range. I also have psb alpha avs, wharfdale diamond10.1 and the Maggie's are superior from the lower midrange up. The lack in bass presence and I have never been able to successfully blend a sub in
     
  3. BioniclePhile

    BioniclePhile The Terminal Man - Friend

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    My uncle's Maggie setup started me in this hobby and has resulted in a ridiculous amount of my expenditures. He has 1.6's with two subs that are blended fairly nicely from my memory. Magnepans definitely have a fantastic midrange, that's got to be their strong suit.
    The only bad they have is lack of lower bass in the smaller models and inefficiency in my opinion. I'm getting the MMG when Schiit releases their speaker amp, and my end game setup will be the 3.7i paired with something to get the really deep bass and keep up with the planar speed.
     
  4. Dash

    Dash Friend

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    Magnepan also has a unique trade up program for customers.

    Edit: I double checked the website and didn't see the program for trade ups anymore.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  5. Barry Thornton

    Barry Thornton New

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    I am Barry Thornton live in Austin. I have designed and built an amplifier for planar loudspeakers, especially Magnepans.

    I seek listeners to critique the sound of the amp. It is physically built on a wood board and is meant for 'first-ear' listening evaluation and learning only. It will not survive shipping so I have to hand deliver it and pick it up, thus Austin and the immediate area HOT.

    If you have a basic Maggie system the you know well I would like to bring the amp over and have you change it out with your amp, you listen, and tell me what you think it did to the system. This is how I learn to improve a design.

    The is a Concept Amplifier, to my knowledge there is nothing like it. Class-A, no feedback, current mode gain, very high bandwidth and most uniquely, the distortion does not change with frequency and that is uses over 700 transistors to accomplish 50 watts per channel. Results so far have been exceptional and I want to learn more.

    If you would be interested in listening and telling me what you hear, let me know.
     
  6. enginerd

    enginerd New

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    I have had a good amount of experience with Magnepans in the past. I first owned some MG 3.6 and then upgraded and fleshed it out to a full surround setup - 20.1's up front, CC2 center, and MG1.6 rears. The two main issues are power requirements and placement. My magnepans were pretty inefficient - my 20.1 was 85db, so you need a pretty powerful amp. Secondly, the are dipole design (i.e. sound wave is projected forward and back) so room placement (esp. away from back wall) is critical. They don't necessarily have a lot of bass unless you get the very large models (the panel excursion is very small compared to a dynamic driver, so it has to make up for that up with square inches). At least with models I had, there were some less than premium parts - connectors, the stands were wimpy (I upgraded to Mye stands), the ribbon attenuator degraded the sound (I rewired to bypass that and the fuse). All that being said, they did produce some incredibly musical sound and is probably somewhat responsible for my preference for planar headphones today.
     
  7. Kamikazi

    Kamikazi Friend

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    I had the MG12s for a couple of weeks and they definitely did some great things, but they also have some compromises that you have to decide whether you can deal with them. They are very open sounding and musical without any harshness. I loved listening to acoustic, choral and classical music with these. They are however, quite inefficient and demand good quality amplification. You have to keep them far away from walls and the MG12 had quite a small listening sweet spot, so better for individual listening. They have to be dialed in to your specific listening position which a bit of a contrast with the KEF LS50s I also owned at that stage. You definitely have to try these speakers at some stage and should you have a good listening space that can accommodate these, they may very well lead you on the upgrade ladder to the larger panels and to your end game speaker.
     
  8. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I lived with 3.6R's for two years.

    Pros -

    Very smooth, grainless timbre like some of the best planar headphones out there.

    Large ribbons (haven't spent much time with the QRs) have a particular way of rendering the top end that some love and some hate. I felt like the level of cohesion between drivers was excellent. No ridges or jagged edges in the response in the higher extremes.

    Soundstaging can be incredibly vast in every direction with good room placement, as is the case with most open baffle loudspeakers. Imaging can be excellent as well.

    Cons -

    "Planar compression" - feels dynamically flat compared to a BWC-style speaker. Maggies only feel dynamic when played fairly loud. Turn them down and you lose a lot of lower mids on down.

    Super duper sensitive to placement to get good imaging and bass. People will complain bass is weak. Usually the bass will "lock in" in a certain spot in your room, but this might not be a spot that is functional in your space.

    They like a lot of room behind them. Too close and they can phase themselves out becoming a mushy sloshy mess.

    Extremely small sweet spot.

    Power hungry, so can't use OPT tube amps.

    // I prefer my L55s because I've realized since owning the Maggies what my sonic priorities are in a pair of loudspeakers - slam and tactility (or "grip" on the air), which the BWC JBLs excel at and the Maggies don't. IDGAF about staging and imaging unless there's a clear phasing problem happening.
     
  9. BeyerMonster

    BeyerMonster Guest

    OP was 3 years ago, so doubt he's even still reading, but I've had 3.6s for almost 20 years now. The active x-over that I added about a decade ago really improved the slam on the low end.

    I mostly agree with @E_Schaaf , specifically his comment about being played fairly loud. Not hearing-loss inducing levels, but you're not going to fully enjoy them if they're played at background music such that you can still have a conversation talking over them.
     
  10. Josh358

    Josh358 Facebook Friend

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    I've owned three Maggies over the years -- the Tympani 1D, Tympani IVa, and a pair of the little MMG's.

    I think E_Schaaf gave a good summary, though I'd modify it a bit. The current quasi-ribbon (foil on Mylar) .7 models don't seem to suffer from the need to play them loud than the earlier models, which used wire on Mylar. Also the true ribbon models (3.7 and up) don't have a particularly small sweet spot -- although as dipoles, they tend to project their sound front and back. (Sweet spot can also be expanded at the expense of image specificity by running them tweeters out rather than tweeters in.)

    Otherwise, Pros:

    - Transparency -- they have a close to electrostatic transparency; by comparison, most dynamic speakers sound smeared. This makes them ideal for acoustical music of all types (on poorly recorded material, OTOH, they can show up distortion and artifacts). The true ribbon models (Mini Maggie, 3.7, 20.7, and 30.7) are particularly transparent -- the Maggie ribbon is still considered one of the best tweeters ever made.

    - Price/performance -- they regularly hit the ball out of the park on this one -- the enclosure, after all, is the most expensive component of a conventional speaker

    - Soundstage -- they will produce a vast soundstage with excellent depth -- particularly great for orchestral recordings. It's like a window onto the original performance. The speakers themselves disappear.

    - Tonal balance/power response -- they're superb in this area, and this adds to their frequently uncanny realism on acoustical music

    - Natural midbass -- nothing I've heard will reproduce drums, double basses, and such with the realism a large planar will -- but see the limitations in cons

    - Require less room treatment than a point source speaker (but more careful placement)

    Cons:

    - The larger models are big and may have wife acceptance issues

    - They have to be pulled out from the front wall -- 3' minimum, 5' is better, even more is even better. Like any speaker that hasn't been designed to work against the wall, they develop more depth as you pull them out. (However, they can be pretty close to side walls.) They do make models though that are designed to mount on the wall.

    - They can play loud, but they won't give you 120 dB levels like a big Wilson. My Tympanis will cruise at 110 dB.

    - Inefficient and require a good high current amplifier that almost doubles down into 4 ohms. Most people will want a lrage amplifier -- anything less will limit their dynamics. People often mistake the effect of an undersized amplifier for dynamic limitations in the Maggies.

    - The smaller panels don't go very deep -- the smallest (the LRS, successor to the MMG) doesn't go much below 50 Hz. At the opposite extreme, the 20.7 and 30.7 are flat to 20 Hz. People often use subs with the smaller Maggies.

    - Because of limitations in bass output, they aren't the best speakers for rock at high levels, unless you use a sub

    - Being dipoles, they benefit hugely from careful placement -- most people end up spending quite a while finding the best position!

    Essentially, I'd say that they're unbeatable on price performance when listening to acoustical music. I heard the little LRS at AXPONA and it basically made everyone's jaw drop -- at $650, none of us had ever heard anything close. At the opposite extreme, the $30,000 30.7 is competitive with $100,000 speakers.

    Even more essentially, if you know and love the sound of live acoustical music you'll love the Maggies, but if you mostly listen to rock or pop or you have WAF issues, dynamics are often a better choice.
     
  11. bmwgeo

    bmwgeo New

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    Okay, so BeyerMonster says it was 3 years since the original post and now it's 2 or 3 years since his post but I'm enjoying all the info - especially Josh358, a real contributor, thank you.

    So, I'm seeking input regarding my most recent acquisition: a pair of Magnepan SMGa speakers which are totally new to me.

    I have been feeling something is lacking in my current Klipsch / Schitt system: a pair of Cornwall IIIs and a pair of Forte IIs. I have Schitt Vidars as mono blocks powering the Fortes and the Cornwall low frequencies with a Schitt Aegir driving the Cornwall high frequencies. The Aegir is using a Schitt Saga as pre amp and the Vidars are using a Schitt Freya+ pre amp (yeah, that's a lot of Schitt and the DAC is a Schitt Bifrost). So, I thought I was on to something special with this setup but, for whatever reason, it's not lighting me up.

    So, when the chance to acquire something way different than the more efficient Klipsch boxes came along I jumped at the chance. I had heard Magnepans are not too efficient and want a lot of power. I hope my Vidars will deliver enough power for the SMGa Magnepans. I'll use the lower output Class A Aegir for the Klipsch. Might that be a better match? Am I on the right track teaming up the Vidars with my new Magnepans? Anybody out there have experience with these, or similar components? Your thoughts, please?

    Thanks in advance for allowing me to benefit from your experience. I look forward to your input.
     
  12. Jdriver

    Jdriver New

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    I have no idea about synergy but Vidars would be powerful enough. SMGa is one of the smaller models.
     
  13. supertransformingdhruv

    supertransformingdhruv Almost "Made"

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    It looks similarly specced to LRS, so you might be set with one Vidar.

    Something to watch out for: looks like SMGa is nominally 4 ohms, but it's possible that they're lower at points. Vidar isn't really rated for 4 ohm mono, and from what I've read it's really not rated for 2 ohm mono. You might run into overcurrent/thermal protection issues if you're really cranking it. I vaguely remember some reviewers having that kind of a problem with monos on the LRS.
     
  14. Mr Rick

    Mr Rick Acquaintance

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    I recently purchased a pair of Magnepan .7s, and am driving them to my satisfaction with a single Vidar. I can't imagine I would ever need monoblocks in my application. I do have a pair of Aegirs, but I use them in conjunction with Harbeth 30.2s in a near field configuration.

    If you already have two Vidars there is no harm in trying them with your Maggies, keeping in mind that Schiit suggest that the Vidars will protect themselves if driven to rock concert levels into a low impedance.
     
  15. bmwgeo

    bmwgeo New

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    Thanks Super! I appreciate your input. According to the Schiit (I've been spelling their name wrong) website it's "100 watts per channel into 8 ohms, doubling to 200 watts per channel into 4 ohms." And later, "true monoblock performance and 400 watts per channel into 8 ohms." They don't mention monoblocks into 4 ohms and maybe that's significant. I never had a problem with the Klipsch speakers I have been using but they are different, that's for sure. Will the protection kick in if the Magnepans go too low? If it does can the Vidars - or the speakers - be damaged even with the protection ?
     
  16. bmwgeo

    bmwgeo New

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    Thanks Mr. Rick! Your input is appreciated. I suspect you're right, I probably don't "need" mono blocks but it's one of those things. I probably don't "need" a whole lot of this stuff. But, nothing succeeds like excess. Would the increased power from 2 Vidars help me reduce the possible danger coming with the 4 ohm Magnepans by providing more headroom?
    It's interesting you're using 2 Aegirs in a near field configuration. I'm wondering if my one Aegir might be a better match with my Klipsch speakers than the Vidars were. The Klipsch are so much more efficient. I'm looking forward to hearing them with the Class A amp and trying the Vidars with the Magnepans.
     
  17. Mr Rick

    Mr Rick Acquaintance

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    Not knowing your listening room configuration, your musical preferences, or your average listening levels, I can't wager a guess on your need for additional headroom. And, as the Vidar in mono configuration is not rated into a four ohm load, said headroom is an unknown quantity.

    I think if you were to ask Schiit directly, they would recommend the Vidar for use with your Magnepans, and the Aegir for your Klipsch.
     
  18. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    It’s not about headroom as far as power rating goes, it’s about how much current the Maggie’s draw at a given volume. In mono mode, the Vidars will “see” half the lowest impedance from the speakers, which can get quite low and will draw a low of current at higher volumes, and may trip the protection. No, tripping the protection will not hurt the amp (at least not on a few occasions, perhaps if you did it over and over and again it might) and a simple power on/off will restore it. Ultimately it will come down to how loud you play them. Other members here have used mono Vidars with other larger Maggies with success, so I suspect you’ll be fine, unless you room is very large and/or you like to listen quite loud. Unfortunately it’s pretty hard to predict, but you’re likely ok.
     
  19. JeffYoung

    JeffYoung Friend

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    My .7s are in a fairly large room (20' x 30', 15' ceiling). My Rogue Cronus Magnum II @ 100W was nearly loud enough, but not quite.

    I tried an F5, which sounded really nice, but 50W (into 4 ohms) was definitely not enough.

    I'm now running them on some DIY monoblocks: 60W class A with 240W (class AB) overhead.

    progress4.JPG progress5.JPG
     
  20. bmwgeo

    bmwgeo New

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    Thanks again Mr Rick and thank you, rlow. Looks like I am probably THAT guy as I attempt to fill my approximately 16' W x 20' L room with a wide variety of music but mostly classic rock. Primary listening positions are roughly the middle of the room where the front half 7 and 1/2' ceiling becomes the back half 13' ceiling. If there is such a thing as a "critical listening" position it's in the center approximately 8' from the speakers on that 16' wall. Speakers are approximately 8' apart. The room is stuffed with overstuffed furniture and the floor is carpeted. I haven't done any kind of room treatments but I thought I might add some bass traps in the corners. I'm afraid anything more than that might give me a "dead" room. Any thoughts?

    I'm lucky enough now to be in an area with no neighbors to be disturbed, so: no complaints. I can listen to music anytime I like as loud as I like. So, I do. It hasn't always been this way so I really appreciate the opportunity. And, there is no one to disapprove of the appearance so I can have whatever I want where ever I want it. Budget is the limiting factor but there are so many who don't have a fraction of what I am fortunate enough to have that I can't complain. What would you do with this room?

    Thanks in advance for allowing me to pick your brains.
     

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