Marvey's Cable Rolling Adventures

Looks like just a braided shield here, but I'll follow up.

I've got 8' of TPR and 8' of GAC-1 UltraPro coming. Will compare against Belden 8402 in both Bal and SE.

 

Excellent, I look forward to your impressions.

Oops my bad........................ did not look at your link well enough.

They look okay? My concern would be if they used silver plated steel for the center conductor and I like the idea of silver plated shield, but a potential red flag is that they do not mention what the conductor is made from. If it was copper they would have said it. My gut tells me they are hiding the fact that it may be steel by saying RG-6 spec. I think RG-6 was originally designed for outdoor downline antenna use and had to be stronger than copper. Having listened to a steel based rg-6 for digital I would say, be cautious. But it could be copper and we are talking about very high frequencies similar to video so maybe okay.

I think I would rather spend my money on a Belden brilliance model with a copper core if they have one that is silver clad. I know my fave Empirical Design moved from steel core to copper (both silver) as his digital ICs evolved. There is this Gotham GAC1 SPDIF that uses silver clad copper core and silver braid you can get made with Canare 7 5ohm rcas for $26 Link . Have not used it but Gotham is decent pro company.

datasheet for the gotham with a picture

 

Would be weird if it wasn't copper, especially if they are claiming PCOCC. I don't think they mean the silver is PCOCC (what would be the point if it was steel or aluminum?). Anyways, I am currently using a BJC made cable that is Belden 1505F since I needed flexibility for my sit/stand desk. Works well.

 

@fraggler

My apologies, how did I miss that pcocc, well that is copper. I really need to read more closely, sorry. If so looks like a solid design.

 

Lol, no worries. It is so cheap, I might give it a shot and compare to the Belden (which cost almost $30 after shipping).

 

Jesus are those all legit WBT connectors?!

 

Got a link??!

 

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/cable-building.86/page-22#post-174852

 

Brief impressions with less than 100 hours on things:

Gotham GAC-1 Ultra Pro terminated with Furu FP-126G RCA: These are keepers. For $1/ft this is exceptional value. Comparing to Belden 8402, slightly illuminated upper mids, in a good way. A bit more extended in the treble. A little less mid-bass hump. Not a lot of time on these, so impressions could change, but so far they present things with a bit more immediacy than the Belden 8402.

Grimm TPR, balanced with EIZZ XLRs: (Oh, @bixby, no foil shield, just braided shield) Ok, whether or not you believe in burn in, these might need some time. Cold, somewhat brittle sounding. Bass is there and well defined with good attack, but there's a haze in the upper treble especially evident on sibilants and guitar picking that's distracting. Will leave them to burn in (if it's what they need...) for another week.

Also, picked up a pair of Gotham GAC-2 Ultra Pro with Neutrik XLRs from @brencho: Compared to Moon Audio Black Dragon and Belden 8402, thiiiiiiiis is some good stuff. Nice, weighty bottom end, seems to have more punch than both Belden and MA. Belden sounds slower in the upper bass (perhaps the flipside of all this "Jeff Day tone" business; it tends to weigh down the transient "snap"). Treble detail is excellent. Space around instruments is better defined than both 8402 and MA. For example, on Kiasmos Paused (Stimming Remix), the 4/4 bass hit is presented more specifically: there's an initial thun-thun-thun-thun, with sharp attack, but the bass fundamental at ~40hz is placed further back in the mix, and it's obvious they're two different "instruments". Decays are more noticeable. Percussive piano hammer followed by sustain seems to just float, and float in the room. Not sure if this portrayal is "more accurate" but I tend to enjoy it. Very nice. Very, very nice. No Hi-Fi fireworks, but very well balanced.

Edit: some more listening impressions:

Grimm TPR has settled down considerably. It's now the smoothest presentation with more upper treble detail than the Gotham GAC-2. GAC-2 has better soundstage width, while the TPR is a little quieter/blacker. For example, on Ben Harper and the Innocent Criminals: Burn to Shine, "Alone," on the Grimm TPR the cuts in and cuts out of the individual tracks are MUCH more noticeable. I.e., when there's silence in the mix, there really is silence. These are really both great cables; one wouldn't be leaving much on the table, and for so little $$ they're almost a no brainer. Compared directly to some Mogami Gold XLRs, both the Grimm and the Gotham completely smoke the Mogami.

I think for now I'm happy replacing all Belden 8402 with a mix of GAC-2 Ultra Pro, GAC-2 AES/EBU (the same thing, but different sheathing) for balanced, and GAC-1 Ultra Pro for SE. Might eventually try a couple runs of the speaker cable (SPK 2x2), too.

 

Regarding the KG cable impedance matching stuff posted around #130, I actually made two RCA cables with KG's method a while ago.
Description link:https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/125-prosink/
Materials: Belden 1694A, Canare F-10, Canare RCAP C-53, 75ohm 1/4W resistor
One end terminated normally with RCAP C-53(designed for 1694A) and the other end had the resistor soldered between signal and ground, using the largest canare plug I can find(F-10) so I can stuff everything in.
Source was Modi Multibit with 75ohm output impedance stated by schiit.

I don't have blue jeans or PYST RCAs in hand as refrence but the KG RCA is about 10db lower in volume compare to my furutech cables(forgot which one), no big discernible sonic differences while the DAC is outputing low votage signal(hard to AB since the volume differs so much). However, while Modi Multibit was pumping out higher voltage signal the music started to distort real bad using the KG RCA. I had to lower the digital volume in foobar and then turn up my amp to get a normal listening experience. I've tried 3 amps with it so I think it is not a problem on the amp side, and the distortion occurs in both channels so I doubt it was caused by my wonky soldering job. I had no knowledge in EE so I don't really know what's going on, but I think it's either I did something wrong, or Modi Multibit's output impedance not actually being 75ohm, or his theory is complete bullshit.

Pics or didn't happen

 

After reading and re-reading this thread, especially recent posts, I think I'm about ready to move on from my Cardas speaker cables and interconnects and put that money to better use: a better amp/integrated.* To be honest, I'm tired of thinking about how much I've spent on cables and how I'm still running a crappy, Class D Peachtree integrated.**

I originally moved to Cardas when I was running an Oppo BDP-105D and solid core silver, unshielded interconnects (actually Clear Day, @yotacowboy) (a couple prior posts here: source, source #2). On my headphone rig, I've compared the Cardas Golden Reference interconnects to Blue Jeans LC-1 and found the bass a little spongy and cymbals to not sound right with the LC-1. On the speaker rig, the LC-1 sounded disjointed to me.

Was hoping to pick the brains of people that have actually used the stuff before. I don't have the time or supplies to terminate myself, so would prefer to buy pre-terminated by a quality shop. I know there's a lot of Gotham love on the forum recently, but I have a better feeling about trying Mogami. Should I reconsider? I can't find much info about Gotham's cable quality online, i.e. where they source their copper, and they don't seem nearly as popular as Mogami despite being around for 40 years...

Interconnects

1. I've read that for unbalanced interconnects, Mogami 2803 is better than 2497. I've only found 2803 on a random Indian cable website, but it is mentioned in the Mogami catalog: http://www.mogamicable.com/pdf/Mogami_Tech_cat2014.pdf. Anybody heard 2803 and give me reason to chase this further?
2. For RCA connectors, with the Redco offers Canare F10 (which @starence uses), and a Neutrik ProFI. I guess I'd be partial to the Canare (slightly cheaper and no spring that could fail), but was wondering if people thought there was any benefit to more expensive connectors like KLEI Copper Harmony and the like?

Speaker

1. Similar to #1 above, anybody use the 3804 speaker cable? Mentioned in the same catalog and supposedly better than 3103 and 3104. Have only seen on another random Indian website.
2. For speaker cables on the Maggies, would people suggest using 3103 (2x12awg) or 3104 (4x12awg, so effective 9awg when not biwired)? For comparison, my Golden Reference are about 4awg per polarity (!). I can biwire with my 1.6s, but don't have two sets of speaker terminals and don't really want to be bothered with it.
3. I'm not finding many places other than Take Five Audio in Canada who sell terminated Mogami speaker cables. Any recommendations here, and for plugs that work well with Magnepan terminals? Cardas makes a "Maggie pin" that is designed for the crappy Maggie speaker wire terminals. Banana plugs with the saw tooth design used by TFA seem like they'd collapse in there. (I've used something like that sawtooth design on the Anticables I demoed a few years ago and wasn't a fan.) Banana plugs would be more convenient on the amp end too.
4. Take Five Audio also deep cryo treats their cables. Never really cared much about this, but honestly haven't researched it. Does it matter?

* Cardas GR speaker cables also send the Vidar into protection mode, so I can't even listen to the stupid thing.
** That ironically doesn't trip into protection mode with the Cardas speaker cables...

 

Since no one else has posted, I’ll weigh in. I don’t fully understand the theoretical basis for what KG is suggesting and @ultrabike clearly back in post 140ish rebuked it, BUT I’ve made enough interconnect mishaps (including recently) to know a few no-no’s. Modi Multibit is a DAC and is fundamentally very output current limited, unlike most preamps with some umph. If you are running a 75ohm resister of the signal to ground, you just created a parallel circuit and will be drawing current out of the DAC to AMP connection, or another way to look at it is in parallel circuit the net impedance is decreased compared to before (very basic EE).

I highly suspect you are now forcing the Modi Multibit to pump out more current than it’s designed, since it always tries to swing a specific voltage based on the sound volume, and lower than any anticipated net impedance makes it pump too much current at high voltage. This explains why it occurs during high volume (digital) playback, but goes away with low volume (digital) making the amp do the work.

Either go back to regularly wired RCA, or if you insist on wiring in a resister, you’ve got to increase the resistance to reduce the current draw.

 

Yes, for practical audio purposes it is.

It's important in very high frequency signal transfer, there 'impedance adapters' are often used where such a resistor might be found. Signal reflection is a thing at hundreds of MHz.

As @ultrabike already pointed this direction, I'll add a few points:
audio source devices are usually not designed to drive anything below 600 ohms,
even that is rare. Also signal reflection doesn't matter at so long wavelengths (unless you send your audio signal to your uncle in another state).

More importantly active devices in your audio source output will work in conditions these weren't designed to operate.
I can tell from my own exp that loading dacs with 'passive pre-s' can already degrade the sound, and that is far from clipping.
There is a crucial compromises being made so that the pre or dac or cd player could sound as transparent through it's output devices as possible, that compromise is low power.

Various cables rated for 'wave impedance' or 'characteristic impedance' are interesting to explore for entirely different reasons. These often have low capacitance values per unit length and could be made out of better materials than cables not spec-ed as such.

 

Interesting you should mention Cardas. I have a Clear Beyond power cable & it was one of the more drastic upgrades I heard in my system.
Cardas had a reputation of being overly warm, but the Clear Beyond is the complete opposite of that. I think the only changes the Clear Beyond had over the regular Clear was an added extra conductor.